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<blockquote data-quote="Jeremy" data-source="post: 536767" data-attributes="member: 4036">Or a 14 Intelligence or anything inbetween.&nbsp; Do you generally have straight wizards start with 13 intelligence or lower?And precisely why would a wizard with 760,000 gp NOT spend a piddly 18% of his resources on a permanent non-dispellable +5 to his spellcasting stat?&nbsp; As it affects the number of spells he can cast, his understanding of them and capability to forumlate more of them, and the potency of said spells when cast...&nbsp; I'd say it was an expected investment.As for putting all 5 of your increases into it..&nbsp; Again, you only have to do that if you started with 14 intelligence or for some reason didn't purchase (or even manufacture) the appropriate tome.I don't think it's extreme in the least for 20th level play.&nbsp; At 20th level, it's rather expected.&nbsp; You don't have to have thirty-FOUR intelligence, but surely you can swing thirty?Yup.&nbsp; You can, and that plus 30+ intelligence is all the reason I need not to allow caster level to directly affect spell DC.Where did you get that idea?CR 20:20th level NPC Fighter- +18/+10/+1020th level NPC Wizard- +9/+12/+16Old Gold Dragon- +23/+16/+23Gray Linnorm- +13/+8/+10Megapede- +26/+8/+11Orcwort- +27/+8/+13It looks more to me like the high range is 16-27 (or 15-25 if you want pretty numbers), and the low range is 8-13 (5-15).But we could be looking at different examples.But the way I see it, if you are aiming for a perceived weak spot as you should be, then a DC of 25 is a 50/50 shot for most enemies at 20th level.&nbsp; A DC of 35 is near guaranteed death.&nbsp; And a DC of 50...&nbsp; Well, CR 20 creatures shouldn't be a problem if you can hit 50.&nbsp; You can purposefully go after dragons or monks (or other all-good-save creatures) and target their highest save and still watch them drop like flies with 10% or less chances of surviving.I think DC's are quite lethal enough as it is.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jeremy, post: 536767, member: 4036"] Or a 14 Intelligence or anything inbetween. Do you generally have straight wizards start with 13 intelligence or lower? And precisely why would a wizard with 760,000 gp NOT spend a piddly 18% of his resources on a permanent non-dispellable +5 to his spellcasting stat? As it affects the number of spells he can cast, his understanding of them and capability to forumlate more of them, and the potency of said spells when cast... I'd say it was an expected investment. As for putting all 5 of your increases into it.. Again, you only have to do that if you started with 14 intelligence or for some reason didn't purchase (or even manufacture) the appropriate tome. I don't think it's extreme in the least for 20th level play. At 20th level, it's rather expected. You don't have to have thirty-FOUR intelligence, but surely you can swing thirty? Yup. You can, and that plus 30+ intelligence is all the reason I need not to allow caster level to directly affect spell DC. Where did you get that idea? CR 20: 20th level NPC Fighter- +18/+10/+10 20th level NPC Wizard- +9/+12/+16 Old Gold Dragon- +23/+16/+23 Gray Linnorm- +13/+8/+10 Megapede- +26/+8/+11 Orcwort- +27/+8/+13 It looks more to me like the high range is 16-27 (or 15-25 if you want pretty numbers), and the low range is 8-13 (5-15). But we could be looking at different examples. But the way I see it, if you are aiming for a perceived weak spot as you should be, then a DC of 25 is a 50/50 shot for most enemies at 20th level. A DC of 35 is near guaranteed death. And a DC of 50... Well, CR 20 creatures shouldn't be a problem if you can hit 50. You can purposefully go after dragons or monks (or other all-good-save creatures) and target their highest save and still watch them drop like flies with 10% or less chances of surviving. I think DC's are quite lethal enough as it is. [/QUOTE]

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