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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Are spell DC's too low?
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<blockquote data-quote="Pax" data-source="post: 537462" data-attributes="member: 6875"><p>IMO, even that is a (tad) excessive. I should think the level-increases for attributes would be best spread around a bit. Touch of Dexterity here, a point of Constitution there, and so on.</p><p></p><p>Any character who, having a single attribute as their primary stat, focusses <strong>solely</strong> (note I said solely, not primarily) on that stat as they gain levels, is min/maxxing already. I would expect 3 points to be added to intelligence in a balanced character, really. <em>Maybe</em> 4.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Note, I said the AVERAGE across all saves. For the strong save, it should fall to roughly 25% chance of failure, for the weak save, 75% chance of failure.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No attribute-ups from levels? None from a book or bought/earned wishes? I think we can do better than a 20 Con. Let's call it 24 ... +1 from levelling and the same +3 book the wizard got.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Only +3? Try +5. Only 25K, literally <strong>chump change</strong> to a 20th level character.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>+8/base, +5/cloak, +7/Constitution. Without class or feat bonusses, that's a +20. IOW, "only fails on a 1" versis your Disintegrate's DC of 21 ... and that's not a exactly a LOW level spell, either.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Really, you should get better than 50-50, against their "weak" saves.</p><p></p><p>Let's look at this from the wiard's point of view: why risk a save at all, if you're most likely NOT going to see the save failed? You already GET precious few spells per day at any given spell-level ...</p><p></p><p>Spells should, on the whole of it, work somewhat more often than they don't. They -- unlike sword swings, for contrast -- are a limited-per-day commodity. Wizards need to carefully choose when and where to cast their spells; to face the very real possibility (IMO, <strong>likelihood</strong>) of the spell simply doing <em>nothing</em> (or next to it), can be most disheartening to a wizard.</p><p></p><p>And people wonder why spellcasters prefer to use <strong>buffs</strong> ... ? I'll tell you why: buffs don't give the other side a saving throw to negate or halve them!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>For either side, so we will count them somewhat even. After all, I could scream "forsaker! forsaker! forsaker!" at you.</p><p></p><p>Nor races; it's easier to get a Con or Desxterity bonus, than an Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma bonus. IOW, it's easier to have a slightly higher <strong>save</strong> attribute, excepting Will saves, than it is to have a higher <strong>casting</strong> attribute, excepting some flavors of psionics.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pax, post: 537462, member: 6875"] IMO, even that is a (tad) excessive. I should think the level-increases for attributes would be best spread around a bit. Touch of Dexterity here, a point of Constitution there, and so on. Any character who, having a single attribute as their primary stat, focusses [b]solely[/b] (note I said solely, not primarily) on that stat as they gain levels, is min/maxxing already. I would expect 3 points to be added to intelligence in a balanced character, really. [i]Maybe[/i] 4. Note, I said the AVERAGE across all saves. For the strong save, it should fall to roughly 25% chance of failure, for the weak save, 75% chance of failure. No attribute-ups from levels? None from a book or bought/earned wishes? I think we can do better than a 20 Con. Let's call it 24 ... +1 from levelling and the same +3 book the wizard got. Only +3? Try +5. Only 25K, literally [b]chump change[/b] to a 20th level character. +8/base, +5/cloak, +7/Constitution. Without class or feat bonusses, that's a +20. IOW, "only fails on a 1" versis your Disintegrate's DC of 21 ... and that's not a exactly a LOW level spell, either. Really, you should get better than 50-50, against their "weak" saves. Let's look at this from the wiard's point of view: why risk a save at all, if you're most likely NOT going to see the save failed? You already GET precious few spells per day at any given spell-level ... Spells should, on the whole of it, work somewhat more often than they don't. They -- unlike sword swings, for contrast -- are a limited-per-day commodity. Wizards need to carefully choose when and where to cast their spells; to face the very real possibility (IMO, [b]likelihood[/b]) of the spell simply doing [i]nothing[/i] (or next to it), can be most disheartening to a wizard. And people wonder why spellcasters prefer to use [b]buffs[/b] ... ? I'll tell you why: buffs don't give the other side a saving throw to negate or halve them! For either side, so we will count them somewhat even. After all, I could scream "forsaker! forsaker! forsaker!" at you. Nor races; it's easier to get a Con or Desxterity bonus, than an Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma bonus. IOW, it's easier to have a slightly higher [b]save[/b] attribute, excepting Will saves, than it is to have a higher [b]casting[/b] attribute, excepting some flavors of psionics. [/QUOTE]
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Are spell DC's too low?
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