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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 460760" data-attributes="member: 151">Re: Overused...overpowered...Well, honestly, I've never seen it cast in a game I'm in.  I think you're forgetting the subtle nuances of a Close range (i.e. requires getting the attention of a monster at 30 feet), the fact that it merely delays them for one round (during which you're either running, letting the melees do their thing, or casting the spell you would have cast, if you hadn't cast Daze).  Add to that the fact it doesn't work on creatures 6HD and up, and it's level 0.  It's a good spell to use to back up the fighters, but it's not really all that powerful...and become useless fairly quickly.Shield: not a bad idea.  Certainly simpler.  Mage Armor: Disagree...it's a necessary part of a mage's arsenal, since wearing armor is so disagreeable.  True Strike and Expeditious Retreat are both PERSONAL range.  The monk isn't getting it unless he multiclassed.  It sounds like you're trying to make the spellcasters, and wizard/sorcerors ineffective in general.  It's a matter of debate how overpowered they become in double-digits...but I think weakening them at low level doesn't help that issue.As for spells like Web and Fireball, and their large area of effect...you forget that they can't be controlled.  Fireball is useless in close melee in a 5'-wide corridor.  Web can backfire too, in the wrong situation.  That AoE cuts both ways.  Invisibility's attack and lose it clause make it good for a suprise attack, and then not much more.  Magic items are a whole 'nother debate.  Levitate, like Daze, is one I never see anyone cast., unless they have a very specific application...it never gets memorized ahead of time.The Buff spells, I can see your point about, and I'm of two minds on the subject.  I'm not sure how I feel about them, ultimately.  Trapped door?  Automatically sprung?  Mage?  What mage? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />How about because all those spells can work a creature of large or greater size, and Hold Person only works on medium or smaller humanoids?  Ogres don't fear Hold Person, for example, and they're only CR 2.Fly, maybe.  Haste, agreed.Poly, perhaps.  While I'm not keen on the save-or-die spells, they start cropping up, and there's so many of them, you'll need to completely revamp upper-level spells to make it consistent.  Saves are still there, and limitations on usage.Wow, I've never seen anyone claim mud/rock was overpowered.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek!    :eek:"  data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" />  Hold monster still allows a save, just like Hold Person.  Increasing the level just raises the DC, it doesn't address the problem.  Teleport is just one of many spells that give vast transport abilities to players.  Wind Walk, for example.  At high levels, players are plane-jumping jet setters.   It's still pretty limited.  If we're talking B-S-T problems, that's another discussion, too.Disintegrate's a FORT save, meaning tough beasties don't much care about it at the level that it's being used at.  Mass Haste, maybe.  Tenser's Transform...cannot cast spells, and you become a fighter...again, range Personal.  Whoopie. I see what you're driving at, I just don't necessarily agree.  Taken in the context of what characters are doing at these levels, these spells don't strike me as overpowered...often they're survival equipment.  Of course, your analysis was only on WIZ/SOR, but I think we can agree the same applies elsewhere, right (*cough* HARM *cough*)?</blockquote>

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