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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ph0rk" data-source="post: 1518774" data-attributes="member: 16266">Actually, you can't tumble untrained.The reason the dc to avoid AoO's is lowish (though I wouldn't call 15 low.  try playing with a moderate pointbuy system and you'll see what I mean) is so that classes for whom tumble is cross-class, but need it desperately (wizard, sorceror) can eventually be able to succeed reliably at it.  Yes, yes, making the dc all the time is no fun, but few would try to tumble to avoid an AoO (if they can just stand still instead) with a skill check of 1, now are they?Tumbling about has its own issues of course; multiple enemies make things tougher.  I personally would prefer a DC of 10+bab to avoid an AoO, but thats just because I can't see a well-trained fighter getting duped by the backflipping rogue more than once.Even if the rogue is able to tumble about; that doesn't prevent the baddies from getting annoyed and charging him on their round - those rogue hitpoints go quick.How can combat reflexes replace tumbling to avoid an AoO?  Combat reflexes grants extra AoO's, it doesn't avoid them.</blockquote>