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Are There Any OSR (or OSR-adjacent) Games With Modern Sensibilities?
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8914140" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>This might be absolutely perfect for you or you might absolutely loathe it, but you might want to check out <a href="http://apocalypse-world.com/" target="_blank">Apocalypse World</a>. It's post-apocalyptic rather than D&D. But other than the first point absolutely nails everything you just mentioned so might prove to be what you are looking for. (It also uses some very different assumptions from D&D and is frequently easier for people who haven't played D&D than those who have)</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><strong>Simulationism first:</strong></em>What's meant by "simulationism" differs a lot - but it definitely has everything that the characters (PC and NPC alike) follows the rules of the gameworld first. MCing a game of Apocalypse World is entirely different from DMing D&D however.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If by "simulationism first" you mean you want a fully mapped world in advance of the campaign then it doesn't do that; the first session is world creation round the PCs. This may be a deal breaker.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><strong>Emergent storytelling:</strong> </em>Apocalypse World is an engine for emergent storytelling in a way that makes any strain of D&D seem painfully slow. Your character class is where you fit into this post-apocalyptic society (from local town boss to driver to cult leader to medic) and every roll is one with consequences while players roll all the dice. And consequences happen up to and including changing your character class.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><strong>Rules Light/Actual Natural Language Rules:</strong></em> Check. There are only a tiny handful of technical terms. There's <em>depth</em> to the rules, but they aren't complex and it does better at natural language than any version of D&D I've seen. Character sheets are a pre-printed two sided sheet to fill out, and that contains all the character-specific rules you use plus their relevant gear.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><strong>Making resource management actually matter (sometimes):</strong></em> And sometimes it does, depending how pressured it is - and depending how pressured your character class is. Scarcity of resources is definitely a thing. Exploration matters less (there isn't a pre-written map).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><strong>Focus on player intentions over character skill:</strong></em> Given the flexibility on interpreting rolls <em>from both sides</em> then yes there absolutely is</li> </ul><p>For how the moves work here's the Apocalypse World equivalent to Sense Motive/Insight. The parts in square brackets are my additions to clarify what's going on.</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>READ A PERSON</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">When you read a person in a charged interaction, roll [2d6]+sharp [stat]. On a 10+, hold 3. On a 7–9, hold 1. While you’re interacting with them, spend your hold to ask their player questions, 1 for 1:</p> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Is your character telling the truth?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">What’s your character really feeling?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">What does your character intend to do?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">What does your character wish I’d do?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">How could I get your character to —?</li> </ul> <p style="margin-left: 20px">On a miss, ask 1 anyway, but be prepared for the worst.</p><p></p><p>And here are a couple of special moves that can be taken at the game's start by the Gunlugger (the combat monster class) although classes are allowed to poach from other classes when they get new moves:</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Battle-hardened:</strong> when you act under fire, or when you stand overwatch, roll+hard instead of roll+cool. [i.e. use the "wrong" stat]</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>naughty word this naughty word:</strong> name your escape route and roll [2d6]+hard [stat].</p> <ul style="margin-left: 20px"> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">On a 10+, sweet, you’re gone.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">On a 7–9, you can go or stay, but if you go it costs you: leave something behind, or take something with you, the MC will tell you what. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">On a miss [6 or less], you’re caught vulnerable, half in and half out</li> </ul><p>It's a completely different approach to D&D's but based on what I <em>think</em> you mean by "Simulationism First" and "Focus on player intentions" it should hit the nail on the head. And it among other things lets you show more about what your character wants to do than just using the skill would. I think it also qualifies for natural language? (If it wasn't obvious profanity and sex both very much exist in the rulebook partly to set the tone).</p><p></p><p>Going into the supporting factor Apocalypse World is very much a modern game and vastly influential in indie gaming.</p><p></p><p>As for these:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><strong>Assuming the PCs are competent:</strong></em> Assuming a competent MC definitely as long as you do not expect things to go smoothly. All rolls are by the players which means the complications can feel as if there's less competence. There is a trap here of course. There's also the additional route to competence of giving the players more control and the characters more competence; when the Gunlugger move above said "Name your escape route" in the naughty word This naughty word move above it meant it. The gunlugger gets to make an escape route even if it was previously established as a trap - if necessary through the wall or straight through the enemy. Because they're the Gunlugger and took that move.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><strong>A unified game mechanic:</strong></em>When you trigger a move roll 2d6 and add your stat and consult the move. The basics are on a 10+ you get what you want. On a 7-9 a success-with consequences (the move will say what you get to pick). On a 6- the MC gets to make a hard move; GM does anything logical that follows the fiction.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The big exception to this is "The Harm Move" when a PC takes harm - in that case the player rolls and adds the harm taken rather than a stat and wants to roll low.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><strong>More high-level adventures:</strong></em> N/A. In Apocalypse World you create the entire setting in the first session and the villains are much more personal in D&D.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><strong>As little biological determinism as possible:</strong></em> Post-apocalyptic with psychic powers and one of the canon character classes available is a dolphin in an exosuit. (It doesn't show up in most games but there's not much biological determinism here).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><strong>More balanced character options:</strong></em> Check. There's a huge amount of risk/reward going on. Every playbook does what it's supposed to even as they range in power from the town boss to the local medic or creepy psychic.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><strong>Not Supporting Politically Icky Groups:</strong></em> Here's <a href="https://twitter.com/lumpleygames" target="_blank">Vincent Baker's Twitter</a>. "Defund & Abolish" should tell you which side of the spectrum he's on.</li> </ul><p>I wouldn't normally jump in with a system that's not OSR on an OSR thread but you seemed to be making a checklist of things where Apocalypse World is really good.</p><p></p><p>There <em>is</em> a D&D-inspired Apocalypse World hack; <a href="https://www.dungeonworldsrd.com/" target="_blank">Dungeon World</a>. There are two reasons I'm not recommending it so strongly as I am Apocalypse World although it's technically a better answer to the question you are asking:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It's just not as good.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It's not politically icky - but one of the two designers of Dungeon World has been exiled by the community for, <a href="https://www.polygon.com/2020/4/6/21207309/rollplay-far-verona-sexual-assault-lets-play-season-2-canceled" target="_blank">as GM, having an NPC sexually assaulting (within the setting) a player's character live on stream with the context only making things worse</a>.</li> </ul><p>Anyway I'm not sure Apocalypse World is what you want - but I'd definitely advise giving it a look.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8914140, member: 87792"] This might be absolutely perfect for you or you might absolutely loathe it, but you might want to check out [URL='http://apocalypse-world.com/']Apocalypse World[/URL]. It's post-apocalyptic rather than D&D. But other than the first point absolutely nails everything you just mentioned so might prove to be what you are looking for. (It also uses some very different assumptions from D&D and is frequently easier for people who haven't played D&D than those who have) [LIST] [*][I][B]Simulationism first:[/B][/I]What's meant by "simulationism" differs a lot - but it definitely has everything that the characters (PC and NPC alike) follows the rules of the gameworld first. MCing a game of Apocalypse World is entirely different from DMing D&D however. [LIST] [*]If by "simulationism first" you mean you want a fully mapped world in advance of the campaign then it doesn't do that; the first session is world creation round the PCs. This may be a deal breaker. [/LIST] [*][I][B]Emergent storytelling:[/B] [/I]Apocalypse World is an engine for emergent storytelling in a way that makes any strain of D&D seem painfully slow. Your character class is where you fit into this post-apocalyptic society (from local town boss to driver to cult leader to medic) and every roll is one with consequences while players roll all the dice. And consequences happen up to and including changing your character class. [*][I][B]Rules Light/Actual Natural Language Rules:[/B][/I][B] [/B]Check. There are only a tiny handful of technical terms. There's [I]depth[/I] to the rules, but they aren't complex and it does better at natural language than any version of D&D I've seen. Character sheets are a pre-printed two sided sheet to fill out, and that contains all the character-specific rules you use plus their relevant gear. [*][I][B]Making resource management actually matter (sometimes):[/B][/I] And sometimes it does, depending how pressured it is - and depending how pressured your character class is. Scarcity of resources is definitely a thing. Exploration matters less (there isn't a pre-written map). [*][I][B]Focus on player intentions over character skill:[/B][/I] Given the flexibility on interpreting rolls [I]from both sides[/I] then yes there absolutely is [/LIST] For how the moves work here's the Apocalypse World equivalent to Sense Motive/Insight. The parts in square brackets are my additions to clarify what's going on. [INDENT][B]READ A PERSON[/B][/INDENT] [INDENT]When you read a person in a charged interaction, roll [2d6]+sharp [stat]. On a 10+, hold 3. On a 7–9, hold 1. While you’re interacting with them, spend your hold to ask their player questions, 1 for 1:[/INDENT] [LIST] [*]Is your character telling the truth? [*]What’s your character really feeling? [*]What does your character intend to do? [*]What does your character wish I’d do? [*]How could I get your character to —? [/LIST] [INDENT]On a miss, ask 1 anyway, but be prepared for the worst.[/INDENT] And here are a couple of special moves that can be taken at the game's start by the Gunlugger (the combat monster class) although classes are allowed to poach from other classes when they get new moves: [INDENT][B]Battle-hardened:[/B] when you act under fire, or when you stand overwatch, roll+hard instead of roll+cool. [i.e. use the "wrong" stat][/INDENT] [INDENT][B]naughty word this naughty word:[/B] name your escape route and roll [2d6]+hard [stat].[/INDENT] [INDENT][LIST] [*]On a 10+, sweet, you’re gone. [*]On a 7–9, you can go or stay, but if you go it costs you: leave something behind, or take something with you, the MC will tell you what. [*]On a miss [6 or less], you’re caught vulnerable, half in and half out [/LIST][/INDENT] It's a completely different approach to D&D's but based on what I [I]think[/I] you mean by "Simulationism First" and "Focus on player intentions" it should hit the nail on the head. And it among other things lets you show more about what your character wants to do than just using the skill would. I think it also qualifies for natural language? (If it wasn't obvious profanity and sex both very much exist in the rulebook partly to set the tone). Going into the supporting factor Apocalypse World is very much a modern game and vastly influential in indie gaming. As for these: [LIST] [*][I][B]Assuming the PCs are competent:[/B][/I] Assuming a competent MC definitely as long as you do not expect things to go smoothly. All rolls are by the players which means the complications can feel as if there's less competence. There is a trap here of course. There's also the additional route to competence of giving the players more control and the characters more competence; when the Gunlugger move above said "Name your escape route" in the naughty word This naughty word move above it meant it. The gunlugger gets to make an escape route even if it was previously established as a trap - if necessary through the wall or straight through the enemy. Because they're the Gunlugger and took that move. [*][I][B]A unified game mechanic:[/B][/I]When you trigger a move roll 2d6 and add your stat and consult the move. The basics are on a 10+ you get what you want. On a 7-9 a success-with consequences (the move will say what you get to pick). On a 6- the MC gets to make a hard move; GM does anything logical that follows the fiction. [LIST] [*]The big exception to this is "The Harm Move" when a PC takes harm - in that case the player rolls and adds the harm taken rather than a stat and wants to roll low. [/LIST] [*][I][B]More high-level adventures:[/B][/I] N/A. In Apocalypse World you create the entire setting in the first session and the villains are much more personal in D&D. [*][I][B]As little biological determinism as possible:[/B][/I] Post-apocalyptic with psychic powers and one of the canon character classes available is a dolphin in an exosuit. (It doesn't show up in most games but there's not much biological determinism here). [*][I][B]More balanced character options:[/B][/I] Check. There's a huge amount of risk/reward going on. Every playbook does what it's supposed to even as they range in power from the town boss to the local medic or creepy psychic. [*][I][B]Not Supporting Politically Icky Groups:[/B][/I] Here's [URL='https://twitter.com/lumpleygames']Vincent Baker's Twitter[/URL]. "Defund & Abolish" should tell you which side of the spectrum he's on. [/LIST] I wouldn't normally jump in with a system that's not OSR on an OSR thread but you seemed to be making a checklist of things where Apocalypse World is really good. There [I]is[/I] a D&D-inspired Apocalypse World hack; [URL='https://www.dungeonworldsrd.com/']Dungeon World[/URL]. There are two reasons I'm not recommending it so strongly as I am Apocalypse World although it's technically a better answer to the question you are asking: [LIST] [*]It's just not as good. [*]It's not politically icky - but one of the two designers of Dungeon World has been exiled by the community for, [URL='https://www.polygon.com/2020/4/6/21207309/rollplay-far-verona-sexual-assault-lets-play-season-2-canceled']as GM, having an NPC sexually assaulting (within the setting) a player's character live on stream with the context only making things worse[/URL]. [/LIST] Anyway I'm not sure Apocalypse World is what you want - but I'd definitely advise giving it a look. [/QUOTE]
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