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Are there too darn many spellcasters?
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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 7323280" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>WotC designers were practically forced into providing a lot of magical options because the gamers wanted them, but if a gaming group has too much magic or too many spellcasters, they can only blame themselves. Because they are <strong>options</strong> and nobody is forced to choose them. Looking at how many classes cast spells gives a distorted view, because the amount of Sorcerers or Warlocks at large is not the same as the amount of Fighters (according to last year statistics, the most popular class in DnDBeyond). Most of the times, gaming groups still look for a balanced party, and so there is going to be either a Wizard or a Sorcerer or a Warlock or a Bard. Sometimes the Rogue is substituted with a Ranger or Bard, and the Fighter can be a Paladin, so eventually a group with 4 spellcasting characters is more probable than one with 4 non-spellcasters, but my guess is that most groups end up with 2-3 spellcasters and 1-2 non-spellcasters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think it's your group who <em>wants</em> to have such situation. In our games we have a Fighter and a Rogue with zero magic, and then a Cleric and a Druid without combat cantrips. We're still only level 3, so spell slot scarcity eventually will disappear, but so far we have lots of rounds without spells being cast. In fact we also have encounters without a single spell being cast. The big spam for us is <em>cure wounds</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, but again this is all gamer's fault, who <em>wanted</em> to have spells in the game to bypass challenges, and then play the game as if they <em>have</em> to choose those spells or feel stupid for not doing so.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You have it. You are just not using it. If you don't want to play the same game the conservative majority of gamers do, don't make those choices. And if your DM makes it <em>impossible</em> for you to play the game without those choices (although I am somewhat skeptic that it can truly happen), blame your DM, because it's also up to the DM to create the conditions to play the game the players want.</p><p></p><p>In other words, I think the problem here is that most of us <em>assume</em> that the game must be played in a certain way. They assume they need spells or they cannot win. They assume they need <em>specific</em> spells for each situation otherwise they can't do it. They also assume they need to kill everything they fight against, they assume they need to pick up each coin they find, they assume they need to spend all the treasure in something that increases their power, they assume they need to have high stats. And they assume their DM won't let them play differently. So it becomes pretty much a self-fulfilling prophecy.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 7323280, member: 1465"] WotC designers were practically forced into providing a lot of magical options because the gamers wanted them, but if a gaming group has too much magic or too many spellcasters, they can only blame themselves. Because they are [B]options[/B] and nobody is forced to choose them. Looking at how many classes cast spells gives a distorted view, because the amount of Sorcerers or Warlocks at large is not the same as the amount of Fighters (according to last year statistics, the most popular class in DnDBeyond). Most of the times, gaming groups still look for a balanced party, and so there is going to be either a Wizard or a Sorcerer or a Warlock or a Bard. Sometimes the Rogue is substituted with a Ranger or Bard, and the Fighter can be a Paladin, so eventually a group with 4 spellcasting characters is more probable than one with 4 non-spellcasters, but my guess is that most groups end up with 2-3 spellcasters and 1-2 non-spellcasters. I think it's your group who [I]wants[/I] to have such situation. In our games we have a Fighter and a Rogue with zero magic, and then a Cleric and a Druid without combat cantrips. We're still only level 3, so spell slot scarcity eventually will disappear, but so far we have lots of rounds without spells being cast. In fact we also have encounters without a single spell being cast. The big spam for us is [I]cure wounds[/I]. Yes, but again this is all gamer's fault, who [I]wanted[/I] to have spells in the game to bypass challenges, and then play the game as if they [I]have[/I] to choose those spells or feel stupid for not doing so. You have it. You are just not using it. If you don't want to play the same game the conservative majority of gamers do, don't make those choices. And if your DM makes it [I]impossible[/I] for you to play the game without those choices (although I am somewhat skeptic that it can truly happen), blame your DM, because it's also up to the DM to create the conditions to play the game the players want. In other words, I think the problem here is that most of us [I]assume[/I] that the game must be played in a certain way. They assume they need spells or they cannot win. They assume they need [I]specific[/I] spells for each situation otherwise they can't do it. They also assume they need to kill everything they fight against, they assume they need to pick up each coin they find, they assume they need to spend all the treasure in something that increases their power, they assume they need to have high stats. And they assume their DM won't let them play differently. So it becomes pretty much a self-fulfilling prophecy. [/QUOTE]
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