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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elf Witch" data-source="post: 5593149" data-attributes="member: 9037">I am one of these people who believe that magic is powerful should be powerful and trumps non magic because that is its nature. So yes a magical spell like charm person is more powerful than a nonmagical skill.And if you read the charm person spell if letting the PCs it  will cause harm to the guard he is not going to do it. You can not make a charmed person put himself in deadly danger if you try he gets another saving throw to break the hold.In my example the bard has killed many of the BBEG minions and his family he has ruined so many of his plans that BBEG just wants him dead well not just dead but hurting then dead. With that kind of mindset there is no way a diplomacy skill no matter how high should ever work.Now if the two used to be friends like Professor X and Magneto then yes I can see using  diplomacy to try and resolve the issue.To me its not just the roll that should matter the attitudes of the NPCs should also play a part. Its like say jump I don't care how many ranks you have in it without magical aid you are not jumping safely across the Grand Canyon. I don't care how well you roll.  Once my suspicion of disbelief has been ruined the game loses the fun for me. Both as a player and as a DM.You are right friends don't just blindly obey but in the skill description they can become friendly and helpful. That last part is what I had an issue with in my game. Which was the bard expected the cleric to become friendly towards him and not to stay hostile and suspicious. The player was upset because under the rules the cleric should not have been that way.</blockquote>

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