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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5604276" data-attributes="member: 22779">And having a result that you feel is completely implausible doesn't kill immersion for you?  The player feels that action X is plausible, thus he attempts the action.  The GM shuts down the action, declaring it impossible because the GM feels that it is not plausible.And this is how you maintain immersion?  I would think that this would be far more jarring to the player than simply rolling with what the player believes in good faith (and that's important - if the player is being a weenie, that's a different issue).But, he's not defining the challenge.  He's working within the framework that he's been given.  The guard is there.  The guard is just some peon with a sword.  The player tries to bluff his way past.  The GM declares that the action fails, not because the player did something wrong, or failed a roll, but because the GM doesn't think it can succeed.How is the player defining the challenge in any way?But, the player will have to determine what's plausible all the time.  There's no way around that.  The player will always be judging what is possible and realistic in a particular game based on past experience in that game (and possibly other games).  If the GM shuts down X because he declares that X is impossible, then the player is forced, every single time after that, to judge, not whether an action is mechanically possible, but whether or not it will pass the GM filter.Agreed.Fair enough.  And informing the player of that is obviously needed as well since that will affect how the player will proceed with his actions.  But, let's use the raft example.  You the DM declare that it will take 20 hours to build the raft.  The player disagrees and says so.If the DM trusts the players, then the DM will probably defer to the players judgement with the knowledge that the players are not trying to be weenies, but are honestly trying to make the game better.If the DM doesn't trust the players, then the DM will probably stick to his or her ruling.</blockquote>

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