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Message: <blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 5604902" data-attributes="member: 463">Completely untrue.  The combat-incompetent player will forget to position for 'cleave'.  He'll forget he has Cleave.  In a 3e game he'll attack the high-hp foe so the Cleave doesn't come up.  He'll forget he has Cleave on his character sheet.  He'll forget what it does.  If he's not doing those things then he's not combat-incompetent!  If you really think "the combat guy will still get to cleave every time it comes up" I suspect you have not actually seen a combat-incompetent player in action.Likewise with a high-Diplomacy character.  Eg as DM I set up situations for the dashing-swordsman PC to use his PC-skills to shine, to wow everyone with his dashingness as he disarms the mooks/rescues the maiden/swings from the chandelier.  The table waits for the dashing swordsman to do his thing.  The player kinda curls up into a fetal ball of un-dashingness.  I have seen this.I certainly don't require the dashing swordsman player to be Zorro, the military genius player to be Patton, the Bard to be Orpheus.  I expect an average-ish level of ability to step-on-up and role assumption.  But I've seen some truly appalling, abysmal play; in those cases the player is not fully excused from their poor play because it's putatively not something their character will do.  The world will interpret their character's actions kindly, but can't ignore them.</blockquote>