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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Janx" data-source="post: 5605754" data-attributes="member: 8835">well, the actual ability of humans to trick other humans is far more plausible than anything else in any RPG.I think you misinterpret that rule.  the "act or believe" is the player's option because as I explained what a real bluff is, it is a manipulation.  If your interpretation leads you to believe there's ambiguity on whether the DM decides if the NPC takes an action or INSTEAD just believes the PC but takes no action, then the wording of the ruling has done your players a disservice.the chart stops at +20.  You're looking for the extended chart... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />the "you can't think" scenario is a tough bind.  I do agree that a player may try to lie about something that is just so stupidly unbelievable that it should never work.However, we're talking about tricking a guard into letting us in.  I suspect it should take more than just a bluff.  Presumably a Disguise to look like somebody who belongs there.  If the guards aren't robots, they are incredibly fallible, despite having directives to LET nobody in.Here's the thing, if you run a game where I can not bluff a guard to let me in, I will have to kill him.  Because killing him is the surest way to get past him.  Bluffing him would have been more fun, and a lot less bloodshed.If you run it that way, you've violated the point of the Bluff skill (which as I've explained where I think u mistinterpreted that rule).Belief is the tool to get the reaction for the desired manipulation.  If he only believes I'm telling the truth that I represent the NGC but doesn't ACT like I am an NGC agent, then the skill has no use and a style of play has been nerfed.That just seems wrong.</blockquote>

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