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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5606118" data-attributes="member: 6668292">I agree. They can convince the guards that they are diplomats, but they cannot convince him to let them in, really. Too much contradiction weighed against specific orders to him and the risk of his family's well being.All of these things can be determined easily by one thing: recurring NPCs in a evolving setting. This diplomat and this king may not be making their first appearance. If Therall the paladin is a diplomat for the nation of Destrae, and he's known Blake the king of Rolis for 50 years, back from before either of them were in their current positions, then it makes sense for him to show up. This exact event has happened in my game, where Blake was a past PC and Therall was an NPC.Additionally, all of the PCs could learn about it, based on sufficiently high skill checks (or maybe asking someone who knows without any rolls, though they'd be harder to find).Possibly. A thwarting DM would also use the PHB, MM, and DMG, but I'm not going to dismiss those because of it.I can see that. I probably wouldn't do it, but I can definitely see it.As a point of semantics, they never, ever made a skill check to get into the castle. All they made was a skill check to convince the guard of something. The guard, based on how the PCs roll, will react reasonably and in-character, based on this new information.In this example, if their bluff had succeeded before Therall arrived (the diplomat), then they would have been let in. However, in my example, Blake (the king) would have been there to greet them, and been surprised that it wasn't Therall. If they were quick on their feet, they could bluff him into thinking that they were replacements (Blake had about +3 to Sense Motive). Siris, the chancellor, had quite a bit more, but didn't greet Therall at the gate, so he wouldn't be there for that, and even if some of the guards thought the players were lying (they beat Blake's Sense Motive but not some of the guards), they probably wouldn't say anything, as they wouldn't want to question the king.I really, really don't appreciate this being called a railroad, as it's not. Please refrain from using such a strong term in a civil discussion.Short answer: yes.However, it really depends. You can never, ever make a "get into the castle" check. You can make a Bluff check that effectively amounts to the same thing in the right circumstances. But, to me, Bluff is not a narrative skill (at least, no more than Jump is).You can convince the guard at the gate you're diplomats, even after he saw the diplomat walk through 20 minutes ago. That doesn't mean he'll let you in.Can you con people? Yeah, when the conditions are right. No problem.Nope, don't agree. The fact that it's your concept gives you no more right to bypass guards then playing a Fighter gives you a right to kill the goblins when there's 30 of them and you're level 1. Yeah, it helps you deal with them, but it doesn't automatically let you bypass them.I also changed the rules on Bluff, Intimidate, and Diplomacy, so I agree that they had problems. But, even by D&D 3.5 RAW, there's no such thing as a "bluff my way past the guards" check.Awesome, good luck with that <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Sounds like a well thought out and executed plan so far. It has a chance of success, unlike many other, ill thought out plans.You do. I never said you didn't. It is exactly the word you used, too: fair. It's probably just a different definition.In some D&D games, yeah, they can do that. Not in mine. So, no problems there.In D&D, you'd lose that fight with me, too, though, unless it's well thought out and executed. Social power translates to physical and magical power much of the time. I mean, the crown prince may be low level right now, but he has the money to buy the most powerful people in the land to defend him from everyone who'd think of doing what you've named.At any rate, the assertion of "let me make Bluff checks to get in, or I'll be forced to kill everything" is pretty amusing still. I'm not really worried about it.As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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