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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5610159" data-attributes="member: 6668292">I'm willing to discuss this at length, if you'd like. I just don't want to argue.Let's take a look at it.Well, they did make skill checks:They rolled high enough on their Gather Information to know that a diplomat is coming, and who he is. They didn't roll high enough to know about the personal tie to the king. They are disguised as the diplomat, though, so it's possible that the disguise will hold up on a successful check (though the king get's a bonus to see through it, as usual).If they rolled higher, then they'd know about the personal connection. As we can see, they rolled high on the Bluff, but not high enough on their investigation checks (Gather Information, Knowledges, talking to sages, etc.).So, no, they didn't roll high enough here.From their perspective, no. Completely implausible from my perspective? No, but hard to pull off. If they had rolled better on the investigation checks, they would agree, and change their initial plans accordingly.I know game knowledge that they don't, and I implement that knowledge into how plausible something is, which is why I'm a proponent of the GM being the final arbiter for my group. I'm not telling you which way is better, and especially not which way makes for an objectively "better game".I agree.Unfortunately, that's false, as I've indicated throughout the thread, and thoroughly above.Had their Disguise check failed, yes (which it likely would have when the chancellor saw them, but he wasn't at the gates, as I mentioned earlier). But it's possible for them to play it off with a good roll, and a bad roll from the king.Additionally, had they known of the connection, they would have changed their plans. Just because they are acting on partial information doesn't mean that an action just as plausible as an action with complete information. Gather Information, by description, gives better information based on a scaling DC, much like Knowledge checks.These checks provided them with their information prior to making their plan. They knew the risk of trusting such information before rolling the check, as they know how the skills work.No, as I've pointed out, they can convince the guard they are a diplomat:The Bluff check is not a "get into the castle" check by the rules, as I've pointed out pages ago. It's simply a check to convince someone whether or not you're telling the truth. They can succeed at that, and convince the guard, but now that he's seen two diplomats, and has orders from the king already, he's going to pass the buck up.I hope I've made clear to you why this isn't the case. I'm really not being inconsistent on this, nor am I breaking the rules.Got it <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I'm not telling you not to think that. I am trying to convince you not to, as I think you're misunderstanding the reality of the checks involved.This part is usually true, in my mind.Again, I'll disagree, for the reasons outlined above.That's why I don't use it <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Me too!That is a bummer when someone GMs that way.By the rules, he succeeded in the lie. The guard believes him. Not in any sort of narrative control, though. There is no "get into the castle" check in the rules.Well, that's not really civil, so let's not go into that.I described a situation in which they did succeed. The lie they told was believed by the guard. If they succeed on the Disguise check, the king will believe them, too. If they had succeeded on the investigation checks, they would know about the personal connection between the diplomat and the king, too. And when the diplomat had arrived. The dice determine the degree of success, and I use that by the rules of the game.If that's your reaction, and your players' reactions, then by all means, run things how you like. That's what I've been advocating all along. I've just been saying that your method is by no means objectively better.It does. And I'm really, really cool with it. I just don't like that there seems to be such misinterpretation of people who play with my method, and that people in this thread have characterized myself or others as railroading, or attributed actions to us that we have never stated we use:... or that there's a better way for me to play:These are things I dislike seeing in the thread, for the reasons I've gone into at length. I hope I've made my position clearer, as well.As always, though, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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