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Are things like Intimidate/Bluff/Diplomacy too easy?
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5610814" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>Then... why are you arguing with me? What happened to the whole "call the superiors" bit? I've been saying exactly what you've been saying all the way along. At no point did I say it should be easy - although I do think that the OP was making things a bit too hard, or that success should be automatic.</p><p></p><p>What I've been saying, and it appears that you agree with me, is that if they succeed, then they get in the door. Not, succeed and the guard calls the next guy up in line so you have to do the next set of checks. Not, succeed and the guard calls the king so that you have to do the next set of checks. Not, succeed but automatically fail because the DM has manipulated the timing of events so that you cannot succeed at all.</p><p></p><p>If you succeed, then you get in the door. What happens after that is a whole 'nother ballgame.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This seems a bit contradictory. If what I want to do is get into the castle, then shouldn't the right conditions and reasonable bluffs allow me to do that?</p><p></p><p>See, I think this is where the fundamental disconnect is coming from. I don't look at "bluffing the guard" and "getting in the door" as distinct elements. I'm bluffing the guard to get in the door. If I bluff the guard successfully, then I get in the door. End of story AFAIC.</p><p></p><p>What you seem to be saying is that I can bluff the guard until I'm blue in the face, but, since there is no check I can make to get in the door, it's completely up to the DM's decision as to whether I get in the door or not. I could quite possibly not bluff the guard at all and the DM could still let me in the door. Or, I could be Sun Tsu reincarnated and not get in the door. Again, my entrance has zero to do with me and everything to do with the DM and whatever story he wants to tell.</p><p></p><p>Why bother having checks at all if my success is entirely dependent on DM fiat?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5610814, member: 22779"] Then... why are you arguing with me? What happened to the whole "call the superiors" bit? I've been saying exactly what you've been saying all the way along. At no point did I say it should be easy - although I do think that the OP was making things a bit too hard, or that success should be automatic. What I've been saying, and it appears that you agree with me, is that if they succeed, then they get in the door. Not, succeed and the guard calls the next guy up in line so you have to do the next set of checks. Not, succeed and the guard calls the king so that you have to do the next set of checks. Not, succeed but automatically fail because the DM has manipulated the timing of events so that you cannot succeed at all. If you succeed, then you get in the door. What happens after that is a whole 'nother ballgame. This seems a bit contradictory. If what I want to do is get into the castle, then shouldn't the right conditions and reasonable bluffs allow me to do that? See, I think this is where the fundamental disconnect is coming from. I don't look at "bluffing the guard" and "getting in the door" as distinct elements. I'm bluffing the guard to get in the door. If I bluff the guard successfully, then I get in the door. End of story AFAIC. What you seem to be saying is that I can bluff the guard until I'm blue in the face, but, since there is no check I can make to get in the door, it's completely up to the DM's decision as to whether I get in the door or not. I could quite possibly not bluff the guard at all and the DM could still let me in the door. Or, I could be Sun Tsu reincarnated and not get in the door. Again, my entrance has zero to do with me and everything to do with the DM and whatever story he wants to tell. Why bother having checks at all if my success is entirely dependent on DM fiat? [/QUOTE]
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Are things like Intimidate/Bluff/Diplomacy too easy?
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