NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5611561" data-attributes="member: 22779">So, what's the point of bluffing then?If all a bluff does is make someone believe something, but, has zero influence over what they actually do about that belief, then what's the point?  Great!  I succeeded in my bluff.  He believes me.  Now, I can actually make the next roll that might actually matter.  Oh, wait... that roll didn't matter either since diplomacy doesn't actually make anyone do anything, it only influences reaction... I guess I'll do Intimidate.  But, that doesn't make any sense in the context of the game.  Well, at least it gets the results that I want.  Granted it undoes all the groundwork I previously did with diplomacy and bluff, but, hey, it's the only way I get to actually drive the campaign and not be led around by the nose by the DM.If your players prefer your way, then, hey, more power to you.  To me, and to most of the players I've played with, when they succeed, they actually want to succeed.  They don't want the DM turning their successes into failures so that they can "earn" their successes.Do you do the same thing in combat?  When the character hits the target, do you then rule that he actually missed because, well, your opponent is just to fast to be hit by such a slow weapon as a maul?  I doubt it.  So, why are you interpreting successes out of combat in such a way that they fail?Umm, where did this come from?  I never said that the players determine DC's.  I don't think anyone else did either.  The only thing that I said is that once you, the DM, have set the DC and I, the player, have beaten that DC, don't take that success and spin it into a failure.It might even be that a given choice of action really is impossible.  That's fine.  At that point, we actually agree LostSoul - don't roll the dice.  Or, at least tell the players what's going on.  Don't just say, "Hey, I know you just got a really high number on that roll and you know (because you're not a new player) that you succeeded, but, for some reason you fail."And then sit back and expect the players to start pixel bitching their way into reading your mind as to why they failed.But, no, at no point do the players get to determine DC's.  Although, typically, the DC's will at least be ballparkable by the players if they have any experience with the system.The bottom line is, if the players actually succeed, LET THEM SUCCEED.  Blocking success is frustrating to the players, breaks all immersion and leads to your players giving up on trying things that are not so basic simple that the DM cannot block the success.</blockquote>

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