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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 5611711" data-attributes="member: 5889">To me, the debate comes down to Bluff as a "lie" skill vs bluff as a "persuade" skill.Take the following hypothetical. The BBEG goes to the guard and says "Don't let anyone other than me go through this door!"One of the PCs goes to the guard with a massive outrageous bluff skill.PC: "I am the second in command, let me through!"Guard: "Um...you don't look or sound like the second in command, buzz off!"PC: "I am currently experimenting with the power to change my form, do not question me minion!" (rolls a very high bluff check and succeeds)Guard: "Oh...I greatly apologize sir! However, the chief said I cannot let anyone else through, not even you"PC: "I know what he said, but he has sent me down here on important business. I don't have time to waste, so let me through!"Guard: "Sir, why wouldn't he have told me you were coming?"PC: "Because the BBEG does not waste time with the likes of you when more important things are going on. He sent me, end of story" (passes another bluff check).Now....at this point is where I think the road divides for a lot of groups. For some, the bluff checks have answered all of the guards concerns with lies. Therefore, the guard is convinced enough to let the PC through.The other camp says, the guard believes the lies, but has not been persuaded of anything. That would require a diplomacy check to actually convince the guard to let him through.Note that a key part here is that the guard does need convincing...specifically because of the BBEGs orders. If the second in command would normally have been allowed in, the bluff checks would have been sufficient (the goal is to convince the guard you are the guy, once that's done, you already have permission).</blockquote>

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