Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5611777" data-attributes="member: 22779">The problem is Stalker0 - and I totally agree with how you have posted things - is that apparently, bluffing the guard isn't enough, nor is diplomacy.After all, there is no open the gate skill.According to JamesonCourage, no skill can get that gate to open.  The only thing that gets that gate to open is if I press the correct series of buttons in the DM's head and he lets me get in the gate.  If I fail to press any of the buttons, then I cannot enter.  If I do not press ALL of the buttons, I still cannot enter.  In fact, pressing the buttons doesn't actually do anything because it all comes down to the DM making an adjudication that I have apparently convinced him that I should be let in.At no point does any of my successes actually let me in the gate.  It's all up to DM Fiat.I would say that the basic difference here is, how do you award success.  After all, we all agree that the PC's succeeded.  They bluffed the guard.  The guard believes their lie.  Maybe the DM requires a further diplomacy check, that's fine.  But, in the example, even if I do that, the guard still calls down the king and I'm screwed.Now, if any of the following is the result:Then the PC's success ACTUALLY is a success.  They get in the door and they are not subject to an endless string of subsequent challenges until they fail.  See, both of these examples actually reward success instead of punishing it.It all comes down to how do you reward success.Not really.  My point, and the thing that everyone seems to agree on, is that the PC's have already succeeded.  They bluffed the guard, they jumped through the hoops, they got their 12 successes before 3 failures, whatever floats your boat.  They succeeded.  But, that success is then turned into a failure because the DM decides that their success just isn't quite good enough.That's where I part company.</blockquote>

Verification