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Message: <blockquote data-quote="NewJeffCT" data-source="post: 5616477" data-attributes="member: 10784">I'm not sure how to get up to a +80, but assuming you're a "diplomancer" type in game, you start off with an 18 CHA and max ranks in Diplomacy for a +7Then, you take three other skills that give you another +6 from skill synergies and you're at a +13 (Bluff, Sense Motive & Knowledge: Nobility).  If you're a Diplomancer, you also take the Skill Focus: Diplomacy feat for a +16 at first level.  Add in being a half-elf, and you're up to +18 at first level.Over the course of those 20 levels, you put in another 5 points to Charisma, giving you a 23 Charisma.  However, you also have a Cloak of Charisma +4, giving you an effective CHA of 27, which is now a +8.So, you have the original +18, plus 19 more ranks accumulated while leveling, plus another +4 for improving your CHA.  So, you're at +41.  Plus, there are probably other magic items and feats (Negotiator) you can take that can improve your Diplomacy even more than that.  So, something like a +45 is easily achievable if you focus on it.The DC to change somebody from Hostile to Helpful is like a 45 or 50.Similarly, you can pump up Bluff even more than Diplomacy if you use skill synergies and Skill Focus: Bluff, plus you add in a snake familiar, giving you another +3 to Bluff.PC Bluff-master: "Hello Emperor, I would like to trade what is in my wagon for your entire empire."DM as Emperor, looking in wagon: "It looks like a pile of dung to me"PC: "It is your grace, but, it is magic dung.  If a ruler willingly gives up his throne and eats this magic dung, he will be transformed into a god"DM... "well, the emperor's sense motive is pretty good, +16 in my notes.  I roll a natural 20... woo-hoo!  36 to Sense Motive."PC: rolls dice, "I roll a 2, with my bonuses, it's still a 47.  I beat you by 11.  You believe me hook, line & sinker."DM as emperor, sighing: "ok, the emperor hands you the keys to the empire, then proceeds to eat dung... and die"***EDITED TO ADD - MY EXAMPLE IS FLAWED - SEE MY POST BELOW***</blockquote>

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