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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pax" data-source="post: 1084933" data-attributes="member: 6875">Seriously -- what more do you want?  We've got a rubble-chocked, sloped, icy floor.  And he's not just tumbling PAST the enemy, he's tumbling THROUGH them.   One average hit with a decent weapon, or two hits with a not-so-good weapon.  Since weapons deal damage in points, not percentages, then comparing the differences in terms of percentages to artificially inflate the apparent gap is not only a straw man, it borders on the inellectually dishonest. Not really.  Sans tumble, SA is sufficiently hard to achieve that it's balanced.  It's when the ridiculously-easy-to-meet Tumble DCs come into the picure that things begin to break down.[quote[Sure, he might be able to get around the battlefield, but what happens in fights at night? That human rogue of yours won't be able to see well in the shadows, and he won't get his SA dice. So let him tumble.[/b]</blockquote>Very rarely have I seen a fight where someone else in teh party (for their own needs, if nothing else) didn't arrange for a light source.  As well, at 10th level ... I'd be very surprised if the rogue didn't have a means of seeing in the dark.For one, it's not two attacks, by Rogue (10) you're talking 3-4.  For two, again, it's not the SA that is the problem.No; a movement rate gives the rogue mobility.  So would Dodge and Mobility.  Tumble gives the rogue absolute impunity to movement-triggered AoO's.  It also gives the rogue the ability to get behind an enemy line even when the enemies are standing shoulder-to-shoulder ... !!The issue here, is tumble.  Not Sneak Attack.  Not anything else, except tumble.Sometime, try BEING the big guy, and watching the entire core of yoru concept -- very feat you've taken, almost -- dismantled by a friggin' skill roll the other guy can't POSSIBLY fail!!.I've been there, I've done that, and it sucks ... At least against spellcasters, if the character makes it to a high enough ECL, you can take Spellcasting Harrier, and have a chance, still, to get those AoOs.But not when Tumble comes into the picture ...[/QUOTE]

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