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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pax" data-source="post: 1088789" data-attributes="member: 6875">Re: re  Yes to both.  The real problem I have is, it's no harder to tumble past the Advanced (+1,000,000 HD) Paragon Prismatic Dragon (CR around a million and a half), than it is to tumble past a random inkeeper's 12-year-old son with a wooden toy sword.  That's just wrong to me.  Absolutely and utterly wrong.  And as for reflex saves to oppose tumble: skills advance even faster and further than strong saves, let alone weak saves.  Monk/Fighter multiclass.  In some campaigns and settings, that won't even trigger the ex-Monk rule.  Then there are prestige classes that have Tumble as in-class.  Really?  Are you sure?  That's funny, because I run a just-epic-level arena, ECL 25 in fact.  And Tumble checks there are pushing into the 40's and 50's.  To-Hits, even for rogues, tend to be at the point where the first attack bonus is no more than 5 less than the vast majority of ACs (the only exceptiosn are, those people who really PUSHED for high AC, and sacrificed a lot elsewhere).Not always.  And even so, with 10' ceilings in some places (you DO have encounters INDOORS, right?), flight isn't even a possibility.... only if they fail their save.  And only if they don't have some form of defense active.Actually, IIRC without exception, the highest ACs in Exodus have been possessed by monks and rogues.And at least SOME of the characters in that arena have been "BBEG Tests" ... people running their possible BBG for the end of a campaiogn through it's paces under the equivalent of a "D&D combat stress test".... if they don't have 4 more levels of Rogue than the tumblers has levels of an Uncanny Dodge class ... they're not going to get sneak attack.By the rules, you won't even get swung at, initially.But don't you think the higher-CR creatures should be harder totumble past, around, and through ... than inkeeper's sons with toy swords?!?How about balance.  How about verisimilitude.  How about, I'd like to see Tumble's DC be set to start at "15 plus the opponents BAB, whichever is higher", and then no opposed roll ... the opposed part would be in setting the DC.  The better they are at combat, the better they are able to deal with people who want to try silly acrobatics in the middle of a fight.How about, I dont like seeing entire feat chains rendered invalid by a skill.</blockquote>

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