Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Stormrunner" data-source="post: 1101116" data-attributes="member: 13471">The Skill Focus, Acrobatic, and TWF feats were stated in the original description.  That leaves him with one feat.  ITWF is probably better than Dodge, thanks - I was going for maxing the AC but trading 1 pt of AC for 1 extra attack probably adds more to his survivability.  Oh, waitasec - he needs Weapon Finesse to use his Dex attack bonus with the swords.  So no ITWF.Forgot about the chain shirt limiting the AC increase from the gloves.  They still give him a +1 to hit, though.So his AC is actually 2 lower than I stated.Good point on the buckler, if he full-attacks his AC drops even more.A Bbn2/Rng5 centaur would get one fewer attack (no free ITWF) and one fewer spell, in exchange for a few more hit points and Uncanny Dodge.  This does boost her flatfooted AC by +6, so it might be worth it."Sneak attack involves hiding or invisible."  Or flatfooted.  Ring of invisibility deactivates when you attack, and activation is a standard action.  So he could sneak up to her while invisible, perform a full attack in the surprise round, then tumble away and activate the ring again.  At which point she casts Entangle, which has a large enough radius that just dropping it on the spot where he vanished is guaranteed to include him even if he somehow took a move action after tumbling and activating.  And while he's entangled she at least knows his location, albeit she still has the 50% miss chance.  Of course, if he bought such a ring he couldn't afford the sword of subtlety.Let's say he bought four invisibility potions instead of the cloak of resistance.  He just used one to make the initial sneak attack, and another afterward.  Now he has the same problem as before (and she's no longer flat-footed) - if he does a full-attack sneakflurry, she can whack him five or six times in return.  If he just does one plus a tumble away (see, there's the use of Tumble), on her turn she gets two shots at him before he can drink.  If he does one sneak and a drink, she gets her whacks (albeit at a 50% miss chance) because she briefly knows where he is.  His only hope is to keep doing the sneak+drink routine to wear her down, then finish her off with a sneakflurry on the last potion.  It's doable - he only needs to hit her 4 times with his primary attack to kill her - but it'll take him longer and he'll definitely be low on hitpoints.Make her a Bbn2/Rng5, or a bow-focused ranger, and his chance of success drops even more.  Or just less-nerfed, make her a "non-traditional" centaur who doesn't mind wearing armor and let her have a wolf animal companion (whose Scent ability will warn her of the presence of pesky invisible rogues).I gave her NPC levels of wealth on the premise that she represents the sort of "skilled foe" who might be encountered as the cohort of a BBEG.  Give her PC wealth levels, and she'll definitely kick his butt.What does all this have to do with Tumble?  Well, the premise was "Tumble is broken 'cause it lets me bounce past the bad guys and do mega-sneakattack damage".  But if you're tumbling, you only get a single sneak attack that round (two, if you've got a Haste effect), and even with a full attack sequence it's hard to drop a fighter-type."But my lvl19 rogue can do 6 sneak attacks for 12d6 each!"  Well, yeah, but at that level an equal foe would be a 32hd advanced marilith  - who has constant True Seeing (so no invisibility or blur), and can cast blade barrier, magic weapon, align weapon, unholy aura, project image, polymorph, telekinesis, and teleport AT WILL.  So presumably she will have unholy aura up at all times (doing 1d6 Str damage to the rogue every time he successfully hits her), and if he gets that close she can telekinese him away and then hit him with a blade barrier.  Or just whack him with nine magic longsword strikes, tail grab, and constrict.  She has 496 hp on average - you'd need 10 or 11 successful sneak attacks to kill her.  That's 10 Fortitude saves to avoid Str damage.In short, rogues with maxed-out Tumble can be darn annoying, even deadly at times - but they're not overpowering except in rare circumstances.  The rogue is probably deadlier if he simply tumbles into a flanking position and then uses Aid Another, giving his friend the lvl19 barbarian a total +4 on all attacks...</blockquote>

Verification