Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 1103559" data-attributes="member: 1757">So you're saying that it's OK for the Hide and Move Silently skills to work on an opposed basis, but because those already do, Tumble doesn't need to? That hardly makes sense. Again, the issue is whether the action of tumbling itself is too difficult. Your argument shouldn't depend on the circumstances occurring prior to the tumble. It's also true that finding a hiding rogue will be difficult for your average fighter; does that mean that every fighter should receive the ability to cast finger of death (targets rogues only) as a class feature at 1st level?True, a spellcaster could use scrying and greater teleport to get to his target: That requires getting past targets' saves, breaching all sorts of magical defenses, et cetera. That means that as the spellcaster becomes more powerful, he'll have a better chance of pulling off this tactic; likewise, as the spellcaster's foes become more powerful, he'll have a harder time. The Tumble issue, however, simply requires a DC 25 check; a Dex of 20, a +5 skill item, and 14 ranks in Tumbling mean that an 11th-level rogue does this AUTOMATICALLY. A reasonably-maxed out 4th- or 5th-level rogue won't have a particularly hard time either. Not good mechanics.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ruleslawyer, post: 1103559, member: 1757"] So you're saying that it's OK for the Hide and Move Silently skills to work on an opposed basis, but because those already do, Tumble doesn't need to? That hardly makes sense. Again, the issue is whether the action of tumbling itself is too difficult. Your argument shouldn't depend on the circumstances occurring prior to the tumble. It's also true that finding a hiding rogue will be difficult for your average fighter; does that mean that every fighter should receive the ability to cast [i]finger of death[/i] (targets rogues only) as a class feature at 1st level? True, a spellcaster could use scrying and greater teleport to get to his target: That requires getting past targets' saves, breaching all sorts of magical defenses, et cetera. That means that as the spellcaster becomes more powerful, he'll have a better chance of pulling off this tactic; likewise, as the spellcaster's foes become more powerful, he'll have a harder time. The Tumble issue, however, simply requires a DC 25 check; a Dex of 20, a +5 skill item, and 14 ranks in Tumbling mean that an 11th-level rogue does this AUTOMATICALLY. A reasonably-maxed out 4th- or 5th-level rogue won't have a particularly hard time either. Not good mechanics. [/QUOTE]

Verification