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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5207604" data-attributes="member: 87792">For comparison: At 6th level, any character with +1 items will have a minimum reflex of 14 assuming no more than a 11 in Int and Dex. It is one point higher than the mathematically lowest reflex defence possible to any PC at that level. And this in a character designed to be pounded on. That's not terrible, that's absolutely abysmal. His will isn't "good" either. Take a Wis 14 character, give him a +1 item, and a +1 from one other source (e.g. being human or a class feature) and you're already up to 17. As a secondary defence, that's only average at best. As for his AC, we'll take an Invoker as more or less the yardstick for a squishy. +1 Chain armour means the Invoker has an AC of 20. This is one of the two squishiest classes in the game, and not designed to be in melee combat at all. And your warden only beats him by one. For good defences, I have a 4th level human monk. Dex 19, Wis 16, Con 14. 21 AC (at level 4 - 4 stat, 2 class, 2 feat, 2 level, 1 item). Fort: 18 (2 stat, 2 class, 2 level, 1 race, 1 item). Ref: 19 (4 stat, 1 class, 2 level, 1 race, 1 item). Will: 18 (3 stat, 1 class, 2 level, 1 race, 1 item). At level 6, his lowest NAD will be equal to your supposedly excellent defence. Alternatively I have a 4th level human Bravura Warlord (I think I have his NADs right). AC: 22 (+1 Scale, Large Shield). Fort: 19 (Str (+4), Level (+2), class (+1), Item (+1) Human (+1)). Ref: 18 (Int (+2), Level (+2), Shield (+2), Human (+1), Item (+1)). Will: 17 (Cha (+2), Level (+2), Class (+1) Human (+1), Item (+1)). At 6th level his average defences are two higher than yours.  (And his at will damage is 2 higher than the basic attack for either the Str 21 fighter or the Melee trained Avenger. Unless he's Brash Assaulting when it gets scary).  For that matter he's just gone up to AC 24 by investing in +2 masterwork armour.  Leaving you even further off the curve (at L6 he will match your second wind AC all the time). And what's worse is that your two weak defences are only going to drop further behind as you level. Finally on the subject of your supposedly excellent 19:  If you have a starting stat of 18 in your high stat, a +1 item, and are level 6, you're already at 18.  This is the practical minimum for a high defence if you have any race/class synergy.  So even that isn't great.  I'll grant that's pretty useful. He needs it - it's his job to take damage, and his defences are weak. He's going to get hit lots.  The interrupt is nice. Until people simply shift away. Or hit him. The reaction doesn't do that much. Give me the fighter equivalent anytime.  Good against ongoing damage. IME the status effects that crop up most and will keep him out of the action are end of next turn effects. Still, nothing to grumble about.  Useful. So do most defenders.  And that one's nice.  Um... no. Your maths are wrong, your defences suck, and your marking doesn't hold people next to you the way a fighter's does or screw them up at range the way a Swordmage's does. You just have a very powerful offence caused by a combination of borderline-broken feats for the hammer.</blockquote>

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