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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 1119612" data-attributes="member: 151">Quite honestly, this showcases that different games play out differently. In my main game, the spellcasters sometimes dominate the game, but sometimes it's the archer...and sometimes it's the paladin.  The rogue/shadowdancer rarely dominates a battle...but she's become known as the party 'monkey-wrench'.  Her skills are so varied that as the levels climb higher, she frequently pull a rabbit out of her hat.  Rogues and Shadowdancers are not about frontline combat effectiveness, and never will be.  Grishnak, your character looks like he might be very effective in a very limited capacity...but overall, he appears built sub-optimally for his stated task.  For example, one of the best uses of Shadows, for example, is support fighters to set up a rog/shad's sneak attacks, and to do STR draining touch attacks. It looks like you've sacrificed many of the abilities of each class you're taking, or minimalized their value.  That may be part of the problem, really.  It looks like you've taken Shadowdancer for one or two of the abilities, and suffered as a result.  A Ranger 16 with a ring of Dim Door would be a lot more effective towards what you're trying for, I'd wager. I can tell you that while it's possible for a party with no fighters and rogues to survive at high levels, it's not necessarily easy.  Just ask my party.  Without the rogue, they would have discovered the sphere of annihilation trap the hard way...and in an anchored demi-plane that wasn't coterminous to the astral or ethereal (which meant no teleports or dim doors).  She was also the one who opened the magically sealed portal to the BBEG's lair, sidestepped his wall of force barriers and deactivated the wall of force device keeping him safe.  That last action alone prevented at least two character deaths.  So did her successful snatching a ring of heal right off the claw of the dragon who was wearing it a few weeks prior to that. And given how many times the party members have been swallowed whole lately, I can attest that the wizard may be able to dish it out, but he couldn't take it.  Without a frontline fighter who can both give and take the damage, the spellcasters are toast.  A fighter can operate in a windstorm without any real penalty...a spellcaster can't. The DM can help this by making the spellcasters feel their weaknesses as much as every other party member.  The claim that spellcasters run out of spells isn't really relevant unless you're having LOTS of encounters, or have no fighters at all.  IME, spellcasters hold back their big guns until the last possible moment, and a 16th-20th level caster has more spells than he knows what to do wth.  And in one level, they'll have 9th level spells, and all hell breaks loose.  And it's fun. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I would consider what it is that you find fun in the game, and see if you can pursue it.  It sounds like this character was based on a trick, and that trick isn't proving as effective as you'd hoped.  Maybe you just need to ask about retooling him, with DM's approval.</blockquote>

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