Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Are we fair to WotC?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 6170928" data-attributes="member: 17106"><p>What's you're point? Are we comparing errata page counts? I know there were an enormous amount for both. And in any case, errata is only one part of the equation.</p><p></p><p>Through the 3e era, three hardcovers probably come out to a bit less than $100.</p><p></p><p>At the moment, I'm not. I was once, albeit not at over $100 a year (there may also have been products that other people bought for me, and game-related expenses for non-gaming products).</p><p></p><p>I do.</p><p></p><p>I'm not a lawyer and I don't want to delve into the legal complexities too much, but you can't copyright game mechanics. D&D belongs to us, not Hasbro. In what other game would we expect to pay anything for access to the <em>rules</em>. Do kids playing soccer have to pay for a FIFA license on the rules? Do people playing chess in the park have to pay for those rules? There are certainly things you can buy as part of playing those games (equipment, uniforms, etc.). In fact, you can buy books with the rules. But you don't have to. Games are free.</p><p></p><p>People optionally pay into games because the products make their life easier, and that's how companies make money. It's easier to buy a Monopoly board than to make your own. It's easier pay for access to a tennis court than to build your own. It's easier for me to buy a PHB than it is to try and copy the SRD and make it into something usable.</p><p></p><p>If it produced enough good quality content and you got enough use out of it, it could be.</p><p></p><p>To convince me to pay?</p><p></p><p>In a strange (kind of twisted) way, my input matters more on that level than that of someone who does pay in. There's a group of people who will buy anything with the D&D label on it. So why would WotC listen to them? They'll buy no matter what. There are also many people who <em>won't </em>buy no matter what; again, WotC isn't interested in those. I'm a person who will buy under some circumstances, but not others, meaning that the company actually has some control over me. And I'm essentially in charge of a gaming group, meaning that if I do buy something, others likely will as well.</p><p></p><p>And, perhaps most importantly, if I play their game, than I recruit other people. Even if they only make a real profit on a fraction of players, it's in their interest to recruit more of them. That's the whole theory beyond the OGL. The game itself is an "acquisition engine" as Ryan Dancey called it, which recruits players, a portion of which will buy a lot of (not required but useful) stuff and make the company money.</p><p></p><p>Paizo is on the same boat; they'd rather you play PF for free than play something else, figuring that if you do, maybe you'll eventually buy something. I've never bought a PF product, but I have bought things from Paizo's site just to support them.</p><p></p><p>Your perspective certainly matches WotC's going into the 4e era. Before, the idea was more "let's get everyone playing d20 and then maybe make some money off of some of them", which was replaced with "let's get as much money out of our customers as we can and if anyone isn't interested in paying in, screw them". Both approaches have some validity; high margin, low volume vs low margin, high volume. As a consumer, I simply prefer the old OGL way, and thus, here I am in the thread about fairly criticizing WotC.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ahnehnois, post: 6170928, member: 17106"] What's you're point? Are we comparing errata page counts? I know there were an enormous amount for both. And in any case, errata is only one part of the equation. Through the 3e era, three hardcovers probably come out to a bit less than $100. At the moment, I'm not. I was once, albeit not at over $100 a year (there may also have been products that other people bought for me, and game-related expenses for non-gaming products). I do. I'm not a lawyer and I don't want to delve into the legal complexities too much, but you can't copyright game mechanics. D&D belongs to us, not Hasbro. In what other game would we expect to pay anything for access to the [I]rules[/I]. Do kids playing soccer have to pay for a FIFA license on the rules? Do people playing chess in the park have to pay for those rules? There are certainly things you can buy as part of playing those games (equipment, uniforms, etc.). In fact, you can buy books with the rules. But you don't have to. Games are free. People optionally pay into games because the products make their life easier, and that's how companies make money. It's easier to buy a Monopoly board than to make your own. It's easier pay for access to a tennis court than to build your own. It's easier for me to buy a PHB than it is to try and copy the SRD and make it into something usable. If it produced enough good quality content and you got enough use out of it, it could be. To convince me to pay? In a strange (kind of twisted) way, my input matters more on that level than that of someone who does pay in. There's a group of people who will buy anything with the D&D label on it. So why would WotC listen to them? They'll buy no matter what. There are also many people who [I]won't [/I]buy no matter what; again, WotC isn't interested in those. I'm a person who will buy under some circumstances, but not others, meaning that the company actually has some control over me. And I'm essentially in charge of a gaming group, meaning that if I do buy something, others likely will as well. And, perhaps most importantly, if I play their game, than I recruit other people. Even if they only make a real profit on a fraction of players, it's in their interest to recruit more of them. That's the whole theory beyond the OGL. The game itself is an "acquisition engine" as Ryan Dancey called it, which recruits players, a portion of which will buy a lot of (not required but useful) stuff and make the company money. Paizo is on the same boat; they'd rather you play PF for free than play something else, figuring that if you do, maybe you'll eventually buy something. I've never bought a PF product, but I have bought things from Paizo's site just to support them. Your perspective certainly matches WotC's going into the 4e era. Before, the idea was more "let's get everyone playing d20 and then maybe make some money off of some of them", which was replaced with "let's get as much money out of our customers as we can and if anyone isn't interested in paying in, screw them". Both approaches have some validity; high margin, low volume vs low margin, high volume. As a consumer, I simply prefer the old OGL way, and thus, here I am in the thread about fairly criticizing WotC. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Are we fair to WotC?
Top