Are we Taking 10/20 enough?

[buzz]

My understanding of the Take 10/20 rules is that they exist to offset the flat-distribution roll of a d20. Without invoking the rule, PC actions become too dependent on whimsy instead of skill, particularly at low levels, which, imho, makes for a very unheroic game.

I've noticed, particularly with a few people in one of my D&D groups, that players often forget about this. I don't know if it's born out of an instinctual desire to roll dice or a conditioned reflex to roll dice when the DM calls for a check. Frankly, it kind of drives me bonkers.

I mean, the party will be moseying around a bazaar in town, and one of the PCs will look at some item for sale, the DM will call for an Appraise check or soemthing, and the player will actually ROLL. "Uh, I got a 2. I guess I have no clue how much this is worth."

I dunno. As far as I'm concerned, you should never be rolling dice in d20 unless you're in a situation (like combat) or using a mechanic (like a save or level check) that precludes Taking 10/20. Otherwise, actions become way too much of a crapshoot.

Granted, the 3e PHB isn't all that clear on this; it's mostly from reading d20M and revised SW, which are very explicit about the rule, that I finally understood how important it is. Taking 10/20 is crucial to making d20 games work imho.

Does anyone else find themselves or people they game with neglecting to Take 10/20? I find myself continualy having to remind people.

 

[kreynolds]

Does anyone else find themselves or people they game with neglecting to Take 10/20?

My players will generally take a 10 for most situations, and if that fails, they'll roll, but they rarely take 20 unless they have plenty of time.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Probably, you aren`t - it seems always important to roll some dice, though taking 10 or 20 might make it much more easier.

Unfortunately, the D&D Player`s Handbook doesn`t say precisely enough when you are allowed to do so.
The D20 Modern Core Rulebook is much better in it, and I recommend looking at it (not only for this matter )

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Zad]

I've noticed, particularly with a few people in one of my D&D groups, that players often forget about this. I don't know if it's born out of an instinctual desire to roll dice or a conditioned reflex to roll dice when the DM calls for a check. Frankly, it kind of drives me bonkers

Drives me bonkers too. I'm in a campaign that started at level 1 and is now up to about level 19. And it's just a lot easier to take 10 most of the time. But people constantly forget about take 10 and take 20.

One player's tongue-in-cheek response: "Hey it's called the 'd20 system', not the 'take-10 system'. And I like rolling dice."

But they forget. At first I kept reminding them. Now I just let it go and take 10 myself where appropriate.

 

[LokiDR]

I think it is a problem of emphasis on the rule. I just started a new rogue. When I search a door, I either roll or say that I am searching "thoroughly" (take 20). Because some skills are not viable for take 10 or take 20, a lot of people will just roll rather than look it up.

 

[buzz]

One player's tongue-in-cheek response: "Hey it's called the 'd20 system', not the 'take-10 system'. And I like rolling dice."

"And I like increasing my chances for failure."

I'd be hard-pressed to not give someone like that a swift kick in the head.

Sort of like you mentioned, I tend to try and lead by example instead of lecturing, but sometimes I can't resist. Like when the party is camped out and the cleric is rolling healing checks for my barbarian...

 

[buzz]

I think it is a problem of emphasis on the rule. I just started a new rogue. When I search a door, I either roll or say that I am searching "thoroughly" (take 20). Because some skills are not viable for take 10 or take 20, a lot of people will just roll rather than look it up.

Going off the skills as dexcribed in d20M, there are few, if any, skills with which you cannot Take 10. The ones that disallow Taking 20 also seem pretty few.

As has been said, the problem is that the d20 rulebook most peole are likely to have, the PHB, is the worst at explaining the rule.

 

[dshai527]

Does anyone have a table or link to a quick reference for skills that don't allow a take 10 or 20? (I'm at work and wanted to make a list for my players to use, because I know this is something we would like to use more often.)

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

wasn't there an exhaustive list on Sean K Reynold's site? I don't have the link but i'm sure someone else does and will gladly post it...

oh wait, there it is:

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/take20.html

Its mostly about the Take20 rule, but you can get some info on Take10 also...

Anyways, can't you ALWAYS take 10 on a skill (except in certain situations, like in combat, or when stressed)?

Maitre D

 

[Murrdox]

I dunno... personally I think the take 10 and take 20 rules are pretty well spelled out. I'll use a nice unusual skill like "Diplomacy" as an example... since spot and search and such are over-used.

Anytime you only have one round to make a check, you make your normal skill check - this includes skill use during combat or when time is important and you can't quickly give something a "once over". For example, if ambushed while talking to a neutral NPC, attempting to quickly try and convince the NPC to help your group in combat instead of fleeing would be a normal skill roll.

Anytime you have additional TIME on your hands, and you can be especially cautious or careful when using the skill take 10. For example, if you are negotiating a price with someone, you can carefully negotiate with him, and take 10.

Anytime you have a LOT of time on your hands (how much depends on the situation...) and you can repeatedly fail sometimething in order to get it right, you're allowed to take 20. If you are negotiating with a particularly stingy merchant about the purchase of an item he doesn't wish to part with, you could take 20. Of course, this might not be the best example, because some DMs might assign a penalty for failing negotiations the first time, such as the merchant simply telling you to "Piss off".

This is how we play it in my group... I'm pretty sure that's by how the PHB describes how things can be done.