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Are Wizards really all that?
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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8748300" data-attributes="member: 6987520"><p>I do. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Whenever the narrative allows them to rest, same as every other class. The concept of rests per encounters (a la 4E) is not really narrative, so doesn't appeal to me as good design personally. I know some people like it, but it feels too forced IMO.</p><p></p><p></p><p>OMG I sure as hell do, and I make sure they have that hand available for holding said components. You want to see a wizard get screwed, disarm his spell focus! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, 5E devs screwed up with spell foci. I loved making casters track individual components and micro-manage if they have what is needed for spells.</p><p></p><p>Also, verbal components can't be whispered, but they don't have to be shouted, either. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>There is no limit. Each level a wizard gets to pick two spells, so if they want versatility it is right there waiting for them... <em>shrug</em></p><p></p><p>I miss the "Roll to learn a spell" from AD&D and wish they would bring it back. It was a limiting factor for magic-users at least.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Killing the wizard should trump the cleric IME, but yeah a lot of DMs fail on that one... sadly.</p><p></p><p></p><p>There's no point in ignoring encumbrance when the default rule is insanely generous. I prefer the variant rules, then dumping STR can really be an issue for wizards and rogues IME.</p><p></p><p>Swapping items is a bit weird IMO. In my games, PCs drop items (no action or anything) and use their free interaction (in most cases) to get out a different item that they need.</p><p></p><p>But, to be fair, I also see a LOT of DMs allowing martials to equip shields as a free object interaction, which it ain't folks... it's an action. (I think it should be maybe a bonus action, though).</p><p></p><p></p><p>It depends on how high a level wizard you are talking about. I mean, once you get <em>wish</em>, all bets are off, even if casting it in a different way might cause you SERIOUS issues (like never being able to cast it again...)</p><p></p><p>Also, many things high level martials can do <em>at will</em> or are "always on" a Wizard <em>might</em> be able to do, but only temporarily. Look at a lot of capstone features (like Primal Champion), Wiz's can't do that, no way, no how.</p><p></p><p></p><p>See, and this is a big part of the the problem. A lot of people want but just as many don't.</p><p></p><p><strong>Concerning placement of AoE Spells:</strong></p><p></p><p>I agree this is a bit too easy for casters to pinpoint placement so the radius just gets a bad buy but not an ally. Now, I am not in favor of an Arcana check simply because it adds another roll to the game, but I wouldn't mind something...</p><p></p><p>Of course, when a martial shots a ranged weapon into a target fighting an ally, unless the DM uses the option of hitting cover, you never worry about hitting your ally, either.</p><p></p><p>So, "perfect" placement of AoE is the same as ranged attacks really and is done for simplicity and ease of play.</p><p></p><p>Back to responses....</p><p></p><p></p><p>You don't need to make a check for lifting/dragging x lbs, either.</p><p></p><p>FWIW, I think the limits should be lower, but have checks to lift more, like checks to jump further. Checks to run faster would also be good IMO.</p><p></p><p></p><p>IME players never retreat because either:</p><p></p><p>1. they think PCs are invincible or</p><p>2. the rules don't support retreating because the enemy can pursue and make OAs and/or regular attacks.</p><p></p><p>#2 is the biggest complaint IME. Neither are because the player fears I'll ask them to make a check to lift a weight they can, RAW, lift without a check.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, that is your DM's call. Under "normal" circumstances, no check is required. Under the stress of battle, a DM <em>might</em> ask for a check due to the consequences of failure. I don't, but I can understand why other DMs might...</p><p></p><p></p><p>My group does 8 hour short rests and a full 24 hours for a long rest, but that is because we want a rest to be, well, restful. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>I really wish more people were willing to, but in general I think there is more resistance to this idea than to buffing martials.</p><p></p><p></p><p>1. You can drop whatever (if anything) you're holding. <em>dimension door</em> is V only, so nothing says anything was held anyway.</p><p></p><p>2. You can bring along an object. Nothing in the spell description says you have to actually be carrying it. Touching it would be sufficient and what we commonly see in movies when "teleports" are done. But I assumed the corpse would be carried and so this was the ONE (and only) use of free object interaction.</p><p></p><p>3. Drop corpse doesn't require an action of any kind. You can always drop something without using your free interaction. Picking something UP is what requires the action.</p><p></p><p>4. Moving is part of your speed, and then dropping the corpse costs no action. Now, if the corpse was actually shoved, than I could see that being part of another turn, which is why I started with "I would assume two turns." <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="🤷♂️" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" /></p><p></p><p>I agree, however, too many rules (STR and lifting being one of them) is too vague. I know that was intentional, but IME it creates more issues than it solves. In many ways, too many actions are "instantaneous". It takes time to pick up a body that is dead weight <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />cautious:... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f617.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":whistle:" title="Whistling :whistle:" data-smilie="25"data-shortname=":whistle:" />... <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="😁" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f601.png" title="Beaming face with smiling eyes :grin:" data-shortname=":grin:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" /> nothing to see here, folks!), but because of the mechanics in 5E, you can lift a corpse, cast a spell, arrive hundreds of feet away, move a few feat, and drop the corpse... all before anyone else can do <em>anything</em> to interfere. This is why I developed Cinematic Initiative, so things like this don't happen, or at least not as easily.</p><p></p><p>Whew! That was a lot of posts to catch up on! I'm exhausted, LOL!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 8748300, member: 6987520"] I do. ;) Whenever the narrative allows them to rest, same as every other class. The concept of rests per encounters (a la 4E) is not really narrative, so doesn't appeal to me as good design personally. I know some people like it, but it feels too forced IMO. OMG I sure as hell do, and I make sure they have that hand available for holding said components. You want to see a wizard get screwed, disarm his spell focus! :) Unfortunately, 5E devs screwed up with spell foci. I loved making casters track individual components and micro-manage if they have what is needed for spells. Also, verbal components can't be whispered, but they don't have to be shouted, either. ;) There is no limit. Each level a wizard gets to pick two spells, so if they want versatility it is right there waiting for them... [I]shrug[/I] I miss the "Roll to learn a spell" from AD&D and wish they would bring it back. It was a limiting factor for magic-users at least. Killing the wizard should trump the cleric IME, but yeah a lot of DMs fail on that one... sadly. There's no point in ignoring encumbrance when the default rule is insanely generous. I prefer the variant rules, then dumping STR can really be an issue for wizards and rogues IME. Swapping items is a bit weird IMO. In my games, PCs drop items (no action or anything) and use their free interaction (in most cases) to get out a different item that they need. But, to be fair, I also see a LOT of DMs allowing martials to equip shields as a free object interaction, which it ain't folks... it's an action. (I think it should be maybe a bonus action, though). It depends on how high a level wizard you are talking about. I mean, once you get [I]wish[/I], all bets are off, even if casting it in a different way might cause you SERIOUS issues (like never being able to cast it again...) Also, many things high level martials can do [I]at will[/I] or are "always on" a Wizard [I]might[/I] be able to do, but only temporarily. Look at a lot of capstone features (like Primal Champion), Wiz's can't do that, no way, no how. See, and this is a big part of the the problem. A lot of people want but just as many don't. [B]Concerning placement of AoE Spells:[/B] I agree this is a bit too easy for casters to pinpoint placement so the radius just gets a bad buy but not an ally. Now, I am not in favor of an Arcana check simply because it adds another roll to the game, but I wouldn't mind something... Of course, when a martial shots a ranged weapon into a target fighting an ally, unless the DM uses the option of hitting cover, you never worry about hitting your ally, either. So, "perfect" placement of AoE is the same as ranged attacks really and is done for simplicity and ease of play. Back to responses.... You don't need to make a check for lifting/dragging x lbs, either. FWIW, I think the limits should be lower, but have checks to lift more, like checks to jump further. Checks to run faster would also be good IMO. IME players never retreat because either: 1. they think PCs are invincible or 2. the rules don't support retreating because the enemy can pursue and make OAs and/or regular attacks. #2 is the biggest complaint IME. Neither are because the player fears I'll ask them to make a check to lift a weight they can, RAW, lift without a check. Unfortunately, that is your DM's call. Under "normal" circumstances, no check is required. Under the stress of battle, a DM [I]might[/I] ask for a check due to the consequences of failure. I don't, but I can understand why other DMs might... My group does 8 hour short rests and a full 24 hours for a long rest, but that is because we want a rest to be, well, restful. :) I really wish more people were willing to, but in general I think there is more resistance to this idea than to buffing martials. 1. You can drop whatever (if anything) you're holding. [I]dimension door[/I] is V only, so nothing says anything was held anyway. 2. You can bring along an object. Nothing in the spell description says you have to actually be carrying it. Touching it would be sufficient and what we commonly see in movies when "teleports" are done. But I assumed the corpse would be carried and so this was the ONE (and only) use of free object interaction. 3. Drop corpse doesn't require an action of any kind. You can always drop something without using your free interaction. Picking something UP is what requires the action. 4. Moving is part of your speed, and then dropping the corpse costs no action. Now, if the corpse was actually shoved, than I could see that being part of another turn, which is why I started with "I would assume two turns." 🤷♂️ I agree, however, too many rules (STR and lifting being one of them) is too vague. I know that was intentional, but IME it creates more issues than it solves. In many ways, too many actions are "instantaneous". It takes time to pick up a body that is dead weight :)cautious:... :whistle:... 😁 nothing to see here, folks!), but because of the mechanics in 5E, you can lift a corpse, cast a spell, arrive hundreds of feet away, move a few feat, and drop the corpse... all before anyone else can do [I]anything[/I] to interfere. This is why I developed Cinematic Initiative, so things like this don't happen, or at least not as easily. Whew! That was a lot of posts to catch up on! I'm exhausted, LOL! [/QUOTE]
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