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Are Wizards really all that?
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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8753404" data-attributes="member: 23751"><p>Knock in a dangerous area(most areas you need to use it in) will likely bring multiple encounters to you at once, which could TPK the group. Charm Person and Friends would be highly illegal in any civilized area. Friends makes the target hostile to you and the charmed person knows it was charmed. That and charm doesn't accomplish much. All it does is make the target regard you as a friendly acquaintance. Not even a friend. Just some guy you see and talk to every few months at a friend's party. If a friend couldn't persuade the merchant to give a discount, a friendly acquaintance won't have a chance, so no roll to get advantage on.</p><p></p><p>Do you really think casting weak social spells that are going to make enemies and/or result in the wizard going to jail or being a fugitive from justice is better than the party face just trying to talk the guy into it? Do you think risking a TPK with every knock spells is better than the rogue unlocking it quietly?</p><p></p><p>Stealth advantage to be unseen, sure. Not to be silent. Invisibility would provide no advantage against being heard.</p><p></p><p>The rogue would at least be quiet.</p><p></p><p>Ahh, but now it's not the wizard being better, it's the feats he chooses just like anyone else can.</p><p></p><p>The vast majority of wizards will never reach a level to cast etherealness and dimension door blindly is dangerous. I would be shocked if my players were so stupid as to use that spell for exploration, hoping that nothing solid is where they want to dimension door to.</p><p></p><p>Wizards can't cast silence. This is about WIZARD superiority, right? That means no other classes to help and no feats that anyone can choose. Just wizard stuff.</p><p></p><p>Not when he's being a fighter. He might have the wizard class, but he's not throwing around spells like a wizard unless he isn't being a fighter. He can't do both at once, and he can't be a better fighter than the fighter in any combat that he's being a good wizard.</p><p></p><p>Clerics keep people up or bring them back from unconsciousness and bring back dead companions, so yes, he can't be a better cleric than a cleric. I agree. And there are tons of cleric spells that the wizard doesn't have, so your argument falls flat.</p><p></p><p>If Face is his prison nickname, yes. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p>Charms are going to be illegal mind control in any civilized area and the target knows he has been charmed, so he's going to be running to the local authority as soon as the charm breaks. Not to mention, unless you're rolling the wizard is going to have high int and mid to high dex/con. He can't have a high charisma unless he makes himself much easier to kill by dropping AC or hit points.</p><p></p><p>Right up until he gets eaten by something that can see invisibility, has ears and can hear the unstealthy clod, has blindsight/blindsense or a sense of smell. Which means lots of things.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 8753404, member: 23751"] Knock in a dangerous area(most areas you need to use it in) will likely bring multiple encounters to you at once, which could TPK the group. Charm Person and Friends would be highly illegal in any civilized area. Friends makes the target hostile to you and the charmed person knows it was charmed. That and charm doesn't accomplish much. All it does is make the target regard you as a friendly acquaintance. Not even a friend. Just some guy you see and talk to every few months at a friend's party. If a friend couldn't persuade the merchant to give a discount, a friendly acquaintance won't have a chance, so no roll to get advantage on. Do you really think casting weak social spells that are going to make enemies and/or result in the wizard going to jail or being a fugitive from justice is better than the party face just trying to talk the guy into it? Do you think risking a TPK with every knock spells is better than the rogue unlocking it quietly? Stealth advantage to be unseen, sure. Not to be silent. Invisibility would provide no advantage against being heard. The rogue would at least be quiet. Ahh, but now it's not the wizard being better, it's the feats he chooses just like anyone else can. The vast majority of wizards will never reach a level to cast etherealness and dimension door blindly is dangerous. I would be shocked if my players were so stupid as to use that spell for exploration, hoping that nothing solid is where they want to dimension door to. Wizards can't cast silence. This is about WIZARD superiority, right? That means no other classes to help and no feats that anyone can choose. Just wizard stuff. Not when he's being a fighter. He might have the wizard class, but he's not throwing around spells like a wizard unless he isn't being a fighter. He can't do both at once, and he can't be a better fighter than the fighter in any combat that he's being a good wizard. Clerics keep people up or bring them back from unconsciousness and bring back dead companions, so yes, he can't be a better cleric than a cleric. I agree. And there are tons of cleric spells that the wizard doesn't have, so your argument falls flat. If Face is his prison nickname, yes. :p Charms are going to be illegal mind control in any civilized area and the target knows he has been charmed, so he's going to be running to the local authority as soon as the charm breaks. Not to mention, unless you're rolling the wizard is going to have high int and mid to high dex/con. He can't have a high charisma unless he makes himself much easier to kill by dropping AC or hit points. Right up until he gets eaten by something that can see invisibility, has ears and can hear the unstealthy clod, has blindsight/blindsense or a sense of smell. Which means lots of things. [/QUOTE]
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