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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8754639" data-attributes="member: 7030563">Only if they have a lower dexterity, and not all theives tools checks are dexterity, a lot of traps in particular are intelligence.Orcs?  Goblins? Kobolds? Drow?Like I said I have seen charms used in plenty of streaming games and those characters did not get locked up and I have seen them used plenty of times in D&D novels, to include by protagonists, without them getting locked up.  I think you are the one playing an outler game.IF you can't  use charm person or friends then why are they even in the game?Right and if you don't get a roll then it does not matter if the other player has a great charisma and expertise.  If you don't get a roll, you don't get a roll.The point is Friends is going to generally work as well or better than expertise in the same skill.  If it is impossible, it is impossible and it does not matter if you use Friends, or expertise or try to do it with an 8 charisma and disadvantage.Right and without the spell you can't do anything at all.  Basically there are three possibilities:1. It is completely impossible, even for a friendly acquaintance, in which case there is no difference between the Wizard doing it and the face doing it.  The Face is equally bad at it.2. It is possible without charming him in which case the wizard gets advantage on the roll and is better than the face would be at it (assuming a decent charisma and proficiency)3. It is not possible normally, but if the guy was a friendly acquaintance it would be possible, in which case the wizard is better.There is no case where the wizard is worse at this (assuming a decent charimsa and proficiency)And if you lie to him he is going to realize you lied to him.  He realizes, he comes to talk to you about it and you charm him again.   And sight is both the most common way to find a hidden person and breaking sight is the only requirement for even trying to hide.In ANY room that is not completely dark (or any room with enemies with darkvision).  I'm not sure you understand how hide works, you must be fully obscured to even TRY to hide unless you are a wood elf in natural terrain, a lightfoot halfling hiding behind a person or you have the skukler feat.  Those are the only 3 ways to You go into a dimly lit tavern and the Rogue can't hide in the room - period.  He can't even try to hide because he is only partially obscured by the dim light.  He has to go behind the bar, turn over a table and get behind it, snuff out all the candles or go into another room to even attempt hiding (and snuffing out the candles won't work if the guy you are hiding from has darkvision)He automatically sees him unless he is fully obscured.  If the Rogue tries to hide without being completley obscuring himself he automatically fails.  He has to completely break sight to even try to hide.If the enemy has darkvision and you are in a completely dark room and want to hide in the corner over there - automatic failure!The wizard can hide anywhere in the room.  He can stand right in front of him and hide.Another example - 2 Drow guarding a long dark hallway - Rogue has no chance at all of sneaking down the hallway past them because he can't be fullly obscured.  None, can't impossible for him. Wizard turns invisibile and can try it easily.Your argument is the wizard can't be  better, that is fundamentally a different argument than saying another chassis better supports this.I agree on that, a Wizard can not be a good healer, not even with feats.Doesn't matter.  I could have built a wizard to do it.  Your point is you can't make a wizard that can do those things.  Yes you can.The Forgotten Realms is the most popular D&D setting and mind probing spells are used often in that setting in the novels, to include by the law.You are the one who is out of touch here.Sure, but if you are not building for combat then getting hit does  not matter a lot.I agree a combat-oriented wizard should have a high dexterity but constitution is overated IME, not just on Wizards but on most players.  I have built some pretty combat heavy wizards and I rarely invest a lot in Constitution.  If  you are really worried about hit points, precasting False Life will give you a lot more hps than you can get out of a 2-point bump in constitution, while allowing you to invest more in dexterity, wisdom or charisma.People will scream "concentration", but building so as not to take damage is more effective than improving your concentration save.  When you fail concentration it is usually not the end of the world you can just recast the spell.  If it is going to be the end of the world (that dragon is banished but his allies are attacking) then other characters are probably buffing you with things like sanctuary and you are probably taking the dodge action or taking cover to avoid damage at all costs.Being dimly lit only makes you partially obsccured.  It has to be completely dark to be fully obscured and only then if the enemy does not have darkvision.You have this backwards - it is a corner cases where the Rogue can hide without getting behind something - either a completely black room with enemies that do not have darkvision or wood elf, halfling or skulker feat affording the limited options that expand that.</blockquote>

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