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Are Wizards really all that?
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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8754667" data-attributes="member: 23751"><p>9 times out of 10 they will have a lower dex. Many rogues will similarly have a 14 intelligence, which when combined with the expertise they likely have, still makes them as good or better at the int traps than the wizard.</p><p></p><p>So yes, monsters for the most part. I'm talking about civilized society. That said, some places allow orcs, goblins, kobolds and/or drow to live there. Those would be protected.</p><p></p><p>I don't know why you keep bringing up streaming like it means something. First, from what I saw of the first season of critical role, Mercer doesn't seem to put realism very high on his list. I'm not surprised he is ignoring the logical result of mind raping people in civilized society. Second, Mercer and others can still get things wrong. They aren't perfect.</p><p></p><p>You can, just at appropriate times. Perhaps on the goblin you are interrogating in the ruins.</p><p></p><p>The benefit of advantage is the highest when the DC is in the middle, like a 10. At DC 15 or so it's not going to be quite as good as expertise plus decent charisma. At 20-30 the expertise and charisma is going to blow advantage out of the water.</p><p></p><p>I provided it above. There's no case where at a DC of like 10 the rogue is better. But if the DC is 10 you're wasting time by even casting the spell.</p><p></p><p>Why do you assume he's going to realize the rogue is lying? He's guaranteed to know about the charm and report it to the authorities, but against a rogue is unlikely to know he was lied to.</p><p></p><p>Not true. To be hidden you must be both unseen AND unheard, per RAW. If you are seen it's just flat out impossible to hide, so quiet doesn't matter.</p><p></p><p>I don't know why you keep assuming a completely empty room.</p><p></p><p>Walk behind a pillar, crouch behind a table with chairs... There are lots of possible hiding places in a crowded full room.</p><p></p><p>If seen. That's just the thing. The enemy with darkvision might miss him standing out in the open because dim light = perception check at disadvantage and it's hard to see in dim light.</p><p></p><p>As a whole, no. In corner cases, sure he can be better.</p><p></p><p>Not with just wizard things. To be superior as a wizard, you need to only consider wizard specific abilities. Feats, other classes and such mean that you've failed to show <strong><u>WIZARD</u></strong> superiority.</p><p></p><p>Of course the law can use them. You can't lock me up without being charged with kidnapping, but the cops can.</p><p></p><p>It does if you want to live. Combat is a major part of the game.</p><p></p><p>So you're wasting slots casting more spells, or just plain getting knocked out and losing concentration that way.</p><p></p><p>Things to hide behind are not corner case.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 8754667, member: 23751"] 9 times out of 10 they will have a lower dex. Many rogues will similarly have a 14 intelligence, which when combined with the expertise they likely have, still makes them as good or better at the int traps than the wizard. So yes, monsters for the most part. I'm talking about civilized society. That said, some places allow orcs, goblins, kobolds and/or drow to live there. Those would be protected. I don't know why you keep bringing up streaming like it means something. First, from what I saw of the first season of critical role, Mercer doesn't seem to put realism very high on his list. I'm not surprised he is ignoring the logical result of mind raping people in civilized society. Second, Mercer and others can still get things wrong. They aren't perfect. You can, just at appropriate times. Perhaps on the goblin you are interrogating in the ruins. The benefit of advantage is the highest when the DC is in the middle, like a 10. At DC 15 or so it's not going to be quite as good as expertise plus decent charisma. At 20-30 the expertise and charisma is going to blow advantage out of the water. I provided it above. There's no case where at a DC of like 10 the rogue is better. But if the DC is 10 you're wasting time by even casting the spell. Why do you assume he's going to realize the rogue is lying? He's guaranteed to know about the charm and report it to the authorities, but against a rogue is unlikely to know he was lied to. Not true. To be hidden you must be both unseen AND unheard, per RAW. If you are seen it's just flat out impossible to hide, so quiet doesn't matter. I don't know why you keep assuming a completely empty room. Walk behind a pillar, crouch behind a table with chairs... There are lots of possible hiding places in a crowded full room. If seen. That's just the thing. The enemy with darkvision might miss him standing out in the open because dim light = perception check at disadvantage and it's hard to see in dim light. As a whole, no. In corner cases, sure he can be better. Not with just wizard things. To be superior as a wizard, you need to only consider wizard specific abilities. Feats, other classes and such mean that you've failed to show [B][U]WIZARD[/U][/B] superiority. Of course the law can use them. You can't lock me up without being charged with kidnapping, but the cops can. It does if you want to live. Combat is a major part of the game. So you're wasting slots casting more spells, or just plain getting knocked out and losing concentration that way. Things to hide behind are not corner case. [/QUOTE]
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