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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8756073" data-attributes="member: 23751">Lawful is about group and order.  Chaotic is about individual and chaos.  Neither are truly about the laws of man, though the lawful person being orderly and about the group is very probably also going to follow laws.  Chaotic, though, isn't necessarily going to break them, but is more likely to than a lawful person.Sure. The difference is that one, you likely aren't going to be reported for breaking into the necromancer's tower and the king is very probably going to forgive you for the breaking and entering to save his daughter.  No such luck with charming.  Also, many of the non-magical crimes aren't even going to be found out, unlike charm which will always result in the victim knowing he was charmed.I don't consider the drow to be civilized society, but hey, if your PC charms someone there, good chance you will be assassinated in revenge by CE drow rather than be reported as it's probably not illegal, but then so is assassination if you don't get caught.  Nasty places.If you don't mind wanted posters and not being able to go into cities and towns without looking over your shoulder, and you don't mind being arrested if caught or killing the guards, then you don't have to care. Evil folks don't care about that sort of stuff.  And make no mistake, mind control is almost always evil.Sure.  I've had strangers let me use their bathrooms in an emergency as well.  That sort of thing is easy.Whereas if a friendly acquaintance came to me and asked me to buy the drinks, I'd look at him funny and say no.  If I offer that's one thing. Asking is beyond rude.Why would they be after you if you don't cast charm. No charm cast ---> no victim that knows you charmed him ---> no report ---> nobody coming after you.  That response makes no sense.It's the magic. It's mind control.  Deception isn't illegal unless it's something like fraud.If you are mind controlling someone who isn't willing, it will be illegal.  Moving the charm onto someone is semantics that the court will not be amused by.PC: "Your honor sir.  I didn't cast no charm on him. I cast it on my ranger friend who just MOVED it onto him.  That makes the mind rape okay!"Of course.  It's a form of theft.Arcana is one of the most widely used skills.  It's literally the skill you use to identify spells, identify magical effects, understand the meaning of strange arcane runes, knowledge about planes and planar creatures, magic items, magic traditions and on and on.  If it's magic, you're rolling arcana to know what it is or does. And magic is everywhere in the vast majority of D&D games.That's not going to tell you what the arcane runes do, or what the strange effect the trap just released that didn't seem to do anything is.Sooo, an individual of a class can be stealthy =/= stealthy class.  Rangers are stealth. Rogues are stealth. Monks are stealthy.  Fighters are not stealthy.  Wizards are not stealthy.  Clerics are not stealthy.  5e is no exception to my 39 year experience.  I already pointed out how you are wrong.  You can hide while seen with abilities like that.  That's very useful.Light obscurement is obscured.  It's just lightly.  Hiding would be harder, but not impossible.They can't automatically see you.  The rules don't say that you can, and you've provided no rule that says you are automatically seen in dim light where it's hard to see.If you have 6-8 encounters you will.  6-8 fights + exploration = a lot of slots gone unless you want to suck in combat and just use cantrips.  On an 8 fight day if the 5th wizard uses just one slot a fight, he has 1 left over slot plus an additional 3 spell levels for all of his exploration and any additional rounds beyond one that he actually wants to do something in a fight.  And that one slot a fight includes defensive spells, but doesn't include pre-combat defensive spells like mage armor.  Cast mage armor and you only have your short rest 3 spell levels to do everything else with.You must play with someone who doesn't use the full 6-8 fights and that's probably why you think wizards are so strong. The DM is creating the problem.Not if you get into a fight.  In a typical fight pretty much everyone who rolls attacks misses by 1-5 at least once, and usually multiple times.  And that's per fight.  So the difference between 10 and 20 is large enough to notice.  The difference between 16 and 20, not so much.How do you know?  What if the next encounter after you cast it is 1 hour and 24 minutes later?Aha!  So it is your DM's fault that wizards are so powerful.  That explains a lot.  If he's not doing 6-8 encounters, he is throwing off the balance and creating the wizard disparity.Sure, which is why it's necessary to use the alternate rest rules in the DMG to avoid throwing off game balance.  That are have a very unrealistic 6-8 encounters while you walk overland.Nah.  Your wizards are just OP because they fight so in so few encounters.You must have a really nice DM who lets you know when things are going to happen.  I mean, sometimes you know in advance, but often you don't.Seriously?  An encounter is typically over in less than 30 seconds.  That's 3-4 minutes(and probably less) of fighting in total that day.  You can have multiple hours in between each one.</blockquote>

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