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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8758014" data-attributes="member: 87792">You shook things up. With the sort of suggestions that would get you kicked out of groups there for everyone's fun because you clearly aren't.And as I have said repeatedly the fighter can contribute to exploration and social situations about as much as a commoner with the combined minimum abilities of all classes but the same level can. Can a reasonably fit person help with exploration? Sure. I mean they can give people a leg up to climbing walls. They can keep watch. They can carry everyone else's stuff. They possibly have a few tricks of their own. And everything I've written here also applies to a wizard or cleric ... in an anti-magic field. Who gets just as many skills as a fighter and has skills that are generally rarer and in higher demand than a fighter's (history, arcana, and investigation are all really useful for exploring in my experience while athletics ... would be more useful if anti-magic fields were more common). And of course the wizard doesn't get disadvantage on stealth checks.Meanwhile if trying to not spend any spells at all because they are either exhausted or saving them for emergencies wizards and clerics alike still get both rituals and cantrips. The pre 2020 fighter gets nothing at all before level seven.On the other hand I really can't agree with [USER=53980]@Fanaelialae[/USER] ; the fighter in exploration is not a child in the kitchen. What they are is a gofer. Someone needs to watch the milk to make sure it doesn't boil over, or to go and fetch ingredients you've run out of after a run. They are legitimately baseline competent - and by being baseline competent you've no need to use an expert on the annoying jobs that need doing. They might even be the best in the group at some basic tricks. But they're support, subbing in so others can be more interesting.It's worth noting several things:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If we look at <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/5e_SRD:Skills" target="_blank">the 5e skill list</a> the least important stat when you aren't directly being attacked is constitution. The second least important is strength. Coincidentally these tend to be the two best stats of a heavy armoured fighter. Which means the strength fighter has (with the barbarian) the worst stat spread of any class out of combat.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The barbarian is almost as bad as the fighter. But only almost. And people mind less because it's closer to the archetype.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The athletics skill tends to get made pretty redundant. Climbing is rendered irrelevant by climb speed and flight. Jumping likewise. And swimming? So much to make it redundant. As for lifting? In 5e your lift scales linearly. So the wizard and the rogue between them can probably lift as much as the fighter.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighters should not be this way; generally about as useful out of combat as a wizard in an anti-magic field.</li> </ul></blockquote>

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