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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8761175" data-attributes="member: 23751">You throw around a whole lot of spell in a whole lot of situations whenever an objection comes up.  You simply do not have the slots to do everything you claim is being done.Oh, and how does nimble escape, which has nothing to do with attacking, allow you to hit more often?  Are you expecting to hide a lot with invisibility that you didn't cast because disguise self is still one per the below claim?  Or is disguise self not on any longer because you are going invisible in combat?  Or do you expect to hide from someone that can see you?The rogue is moving slower, because you know, he's actually exploring.  He's examining locks and floors looking for traps.  He's looking behind things and for secret doors.  He's not just running through the dungeon at full speed not seeing much like you want to do with the eye.No.  I said it can't find things the way the rogue can, which is true because it can't move things around and is moving at full speed, rather than examining the walls and floors for traps and secret doors.  If you want to slow down greatly, you too can actually examine things as you move with the eye.It takes longer than 6 seconds to examine a 30 foot stretch of wall.  Even a 6 second search of a 10 foot section isn't sufficient. You need to describe how you are searching and it takes time to go over a large section like that."In most cases, you need to describe where you are looking in order for the D M to determine you r chance of success. For example, a key is hidden beneath a set of folded clothes in the top d rawer of a bureau. I f you tell the DM that you pace around the room, looking at the walls and furniture for clues, you have no chance of finding the key, regardless of your Wisdom (Perception) check result. You would have to specifythat you were opening the drawers or searching the bureau in order to have any chance of success."That sort of description and searching would be several minutes in length.  And that's just for one 30 foot section.   You have 4 to do.Correct.  Yet you keep saying you cast it and that casting it makes you a better rogue than the rogue.  Which is it?This is patently false.  The rogue has already opened them and the useful treasure is with the party and perhaps helping with future encounters.  Further, there's no guarantee that you guys aren't running your rears off to get out alive. If you follow your plan, you could lose everything in those chests, where you wouldn't with a rogue, because the treasure is running out with the party if the rogue is in the party.He can't fail.  Like literally he can't.  He has +5 for dex and +6 for proficiency and expertise.  Since he gets re-rolls, he auto opens any lock with a DC of 31 or lower, except DCs cap at 30.You don't have spells.  You've described in this conversation casting dozens of spells daily to exceed the rogue.  Every time I come up with an objection it's, "Well he has half a dozen 2nd level slots to open the chests on the way out." and "He casts lots of shield spells" and "He casts disguise and charm monster multiple times each for social stuff" and on and on and on. You.............don't.................have......................enough.....................slots.And if a giant purple people eater comes and eats a sloth, that isn't RAW, either.  I mean, you're talking stuff I never said or suggested here.  And unless the DM is trying to hand things to you on a silver platter and deliberately make the wizard super strong, you aren't having all 6-8 encounters in that short of a time period.And you therefore did not cast invisibility during a fight in order to "Actually probably more often considering things like invisibility" and  you didn't cast darkness during combat in order to, "Actually probably more often considering things like...darkness."Not if you are actually exploring, rather than running through the dungeon at top speed. And if you actually spend time opening locks.  And if you have to heal after a fight.  And, and, and...And you keep claiming that it's RAW, but while I keep quoting rules that back me up, you haven't offered up one bit of RAW to support your claims that YOU follow RAW, but I don't.No. This is not RAW, or even common sense.  It's utter nonsense that places all monsters right next to you and in unlocked rooms and with no strategy, and with a DM who gives you cakewalk rulings, and...No you didn't.  You simply made a baseless claim and tried to call it RAW.  In any case, even if it were under an hour, then you have less than 1 hour to cast a dozen or more concentration spells that you are claiming all last an entire 10 minutes or hour.   You are not following RAW no matter which way you play it.And you've been killed by a dozen traps that you never searched for or disarmed, all of which take a lot of time to do. Oh, I suppose your DM let's you do that, AND search through all the beds, dressers, closets, sarcophagi, piles of refuse, etc. AND look for secret doors, all in 6 seconds while jogging 60 feet and simultaneously chewing bubblegum.Yep. It is definitely part of encounters not all happening in that mythical hour of encounters you mention.  It's an adventuring DAY for a reason. If you were correct and it was RAW for it to take an hour, they would have called it the adventuring hour.  They didn't.And if you choose to spend more slots on exploring and sneaking, you will be less and less effective in combat.And then you wake up from your pipe dream and understand that you don't get to dictate the encounter times.Or he can ditch that False Dichotomy and spread the encounters out over the adventuring day by following RAW and not allowing you to search everything in the room, look for traps and search for secret doors in 6 seconds with one roll.  You're spending hours and hours looking over the rooms if you want to have any chance of finding the traps, secret doors and loot, and it will usually be more than 6 seconds to open a lock, and you will be surprised during most encounters since you didn't bother to try and listen at the door or use other means to see if a monster is behind it before you just unlocked and opened it, and...Your group would TPK fast with your tactics if you were in my game.  I don't go out of my way to make things super easy on the casters.No you don't.  This isn't combat and those rules only apply to combat.Nawp!  Not by RAW he can't. First off, since this isn't combat and the rogue is moving quickly, so he using passive perception and at a -5 penalty according to the travel pace rules.  Second, he cannot search in the way you are trying to use it. Outside of combat the DM is well within his rights and RAW to tell the rogue that jogging down the passage isn't going to allow him a detailed search, and then ask him to roll a saving throw because he just set off a trap he missed with his perception penalty.Even if the rogue were in combat and he searched, it would not be an entire section of wall or an entire room, it would be one small thing like searching inside the bag on the floor, because he only has 6 seconds and has to remain aware of the combat. RAW doesn't support your claim to be able to search entire rooms for everything under the sun in 6 seconds while jogging.Uh, huh.  Except again, this is exploration and not combat.First, the rogue isn't, because he is actually searching, making him far superior to the eye that isn't.  Second, the eye doesn't trigger traps.  It triggers trap and then is destroyed as it has physicality, but not enough to provide even a single hit point.  Third, why do you assume the traps don't reset?It is a physical object that by RAW is not indestructible or immune to damage, since RAW does not say that it is either of those things.  You are free to rule for your game that it is indestructible, but I'm not going to house rule that in for mine.  I will follow RAW that it is not indestructible and then make an appropriate ruling if it takes damage.Unless it's a crappy door, it's not going to have a 1 inch gap.So not much in a typical dungeon.You don't know it's clear, because you didn't search for traps.Unless you get exceedingly lucky, it's not "can," but "will" drain the time.He can also listen at them to see what he hears, unlike the eye.  Because he's a better explorer than the eye.  As such, he's FAR more likely to open the door without alerting anything(if anything is on the other side) and proceed forward than the eye that just sits there and stares at the door wishing it could do those things.Except you've been using 4th levels slots exploring. More than one, since it's not possible to go an hour under your all 6-8 encounters happen in 10 minutes theory of things and you've been casting darkness, invisibility, disguise self and more, which got rid of the first eye, and the second eye, and...Heck, even under my longer exploration reality, you're still losing that eye before the duration is up since your go to is a bunch of concentration spells whenever I suggest commonly encountered things in the dungeons.Why?  You could be in a 10th level dungeon and the 1 guy you can talk to is the kobold servant or something.  It CAN be significant, or it might not. I will grant that IF the monster fails the save it will often be significant, but it's also highly limited since you've cast probably two eyes at this point and are out of your 2 4th level slots plus now a 4th level slot for the charm monster that you got from your short rest.I'm not claiming wizards can't be useful.  I'm saying that they cannot be better than the rogue at all three pillars, or even really more than one.  Which is absolutely fine.  If you want to spend all of your slots to be better than the rogue in one pillar, then you are significantly worse in the other two pillars which more than evens out.  And you did it while being a super crappy wizard, since wizards aren't supposed to be rogues.You're far better off just being a wizard, which means using your spells to plug up skillset holes that the rest of the party leaves open and doing a good job in combat as a wizard.  You'll help the group out much more that way.Which is an infinite number of failures if the MONSTERS in the DUNGEON are hostile towards you. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Okay.  He's still hostile towards the group, so he's likely to be eating their heads while you are taking your 10 minutes, and they won't have you to help out, making it a much harder encounter than it was designed to be, since it was designed with 4 PCs in mind and you've taken yourself out of the combat.Mime stuff and hope.  And if combat happens, it happens.Nothing there says simultaneously.  Yes the wizard can look up.  Then he can have the eye look down.  Then right. Then left.  That's all directions.  It's just by RAW sequential, not simultaneous.  It can't be simultaneous, because it doesn't say so. The W is for written in case you've forgotten.  If it doesn't (W)rite simultaneous, it isn't simultaneous by RAW.No you don't see everything around you.  You are not guaranteed to see hidden things like traps and creatures.  You are not guaranteed to see what is inside a sack, or even the sack if it's behind a chair, and so on.  You only see basic stuff like, "There are four walls, a floor, a bed, a table and 3 chairs."  If you want more detail, you need to take time to examine things.If your argument is true, that tactic is auto fail since the PC is simultaneously looking in every direction, so if he looks down the hallway at the sound, he's still looking up, down, left, right and behind him, seeing you. That's why your argument fails so badly.  It's patently clear that there is no such thing as simultaneous sight in all directions in RAW.Or minutes, depending on how long it takes you to open the door.  And you didn't actually thoroughly search the area, so you set off any traps that aren't triggered by motion.You don't need facing rules in the way 3e had them in order to know that a PC is facing forward, left, right, etc.  The facing rules were there to determine flanking, which by the way is a rule you can put into the game, since miniatures show facing very easily and which enemies you could attack, which is also an optional rule.Just because you aren't using facing to determine enemies to attack or flanking, does not mean that you simultaneously see in all direction.  RAW does not support the latter claim.No.  It just means the game doesn't feel the need to have rules for flanking and such.  Not that there is simultaneous vision which multiple rules describe as not being present.  Again, the hiding situation you described above with the noise distraction would be impossible if you were correct, because you could fail to see behind you while focusing on a sound in front of you.  Simultaneous is simultaneous.I don't see anything in the rogue class that says that if you wear armor heavier than light you have disadvantage.  Why would the mountain dwarf be affected that way?So the biggest problems with your claims are 1) you are using literally dozens of slots daily to do everything at all times, handling all the situations encountered in a dungeon and 6-8 encounters and you simply don't have that many slots, and 2) you keep making claims of RAW without backing it up with quotes like I do. You have failed miserably to prove that the wizard is a better rogue than rogue or any of your claims of what RAW is.</blockquote>

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