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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8762448" data-attributes="member: 7030563">In what I replied to You claimed that a fighter would hit more often, not that he would do more damage.Sure but you can break line of sight and hide and if you are hidden you have advantage to attack.  Absolutely you need to break line of sight to do it, but that is not that hard to do.  You can have  both invisibility and disguise self up at the same time.  Disguise self is not a concentration spell.Sure and you don't need nearly as many as you claim.  I have WAY more than I need to dominate exploration and stealth in a normal adventuring day.  Way more, like twice as many as I would need.  Now I would use many/all of them in combat.I have asked you to provide examples and you haven't.Then your position rests on the idea it takes longer to do things when someone is not threatening you.  That makes no sense and nothing in the game states actions only happen in combat.I can carefully pick a locked chest while an orc is swinging a sword at me in 6 seconds, but if no one is attacking me it takes a minute?In any case if you are this focused on combat, just have an 8 strength ally attack you with an unarmed strike with his eyes closed while you do this.  If he hits it is zoer damage, but this will put you into combat so you can get do things quicker.One inch gap between the yellow sweater and the side of the box:[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.forbes.com/advisor/home-improvement/how-to-pack-clothes-for-moving/[/URL]One inch gap in the wasteband of the jeans, underneath the knee on the jeans, in the shoes and possibly in the left cuff of the pink shirt:[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.shutterstock.com/search/clothes[/URL]Something a bit more thematic, tons of gaps all over the place, shouders on the first image, above the fur on the third, both armbands on the 4th:[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.shutterstock.com/search/leather-armor[/URL]Picture of a dresser drawer with a 1-inch gap:[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.blueistyleblog.com/wood-drawers-sticking/[/URL]Ok so with play with homebrew.The rules state explicitly that he can move 300 feet in one minute without a penalty to passive perception.  He MUST be able to search a 30 foot block in 6 seconds to do that.  It is mathPage 182-183 under noticing threats.Used when needed means better  than the Rogue.IF you get unlimited rolls, in which case the Rogue is not better than any character.I asked how many locks were above a DC28 in a level 5-20  adventure.  My guess is the answer is 0.  So the Rogue can open any lock he finds in most adventures given unlimited tries and so can the Wizard, there is no difference there.The only time this difference matters at all is when the check needs to be made quickly or there are ramifications for failing it (which there often are).Read the build I posted 18 Dex at level 8, not 14 and not even 16.   His lockpick skill is +7 at 8th level. Do the math! He can open any lock DC 27 or below automatically.  At 12th level, with a 20 dex, he can open even the 30DC locks and it is highly unlikely he will even come across a DC 30 lock before then.Why would you ever build a wizard (or any character) with a 14 dexterity if you were focused on stealth and exploration.  It makes no sense.I want an example of a lock in a published adventure at 8th level that a Wizard with a +7 could not open given unlimited tries.No you can't do math.  At 8th level +4Dex, +3 proficiency is +7.  At  17th level +5 dex+6 proficiency is +11He doesn;t have a +5, he a +7.  Math is your friend!Yep, so my Wizard can open any DC27 lock at 8th level and any lock in the game at level 12 .... and this is without feats even!No only those that he could not open earlier, which will probably be 0.Well  you only asked  him to match a fighter in combat.  That is not a very high bar.  Moreover you are sending all the encounters during the rests so as to spread them out over the day, so I am not really running into any encounters when exploring. But the answer is no, I am going to use about 6 or 7 leveled spells to be better than the Rogue at all three phases leaving me over hald What am I using "dozens of slots" for.  Please give me examples so I can debunk this.  You keep saying "dozens of chests" but provided no examples of these chests that the Rogue can open but the Wizard can't.Since I always have unlimited tries and there is no penalty for failing, I can already open every single lock I am going to find at 8th level, so no slots at all are needed for knock. By the time DC30 locks actually are a thing in the game I will have them covered too!I don't have to cast knock if I have unlimited time to attempt.  I succeed automatically on everything up to DC27 and I don't think there are a dozen DC28+ chests published in all of 5E for 8th level adventures.  Meaning if you take every single lick in every single published adventure for 8th level characters, I don't think you find "a dozen" 28-30DC locks in ALL of them. Please I say it again, give me an example of where I will need to use a dozen knock spells.  If it is a real thing you shoudl be able to come up with an example.You are right, it could happen, but most of the time that won't happen.  I have not used multiple higher level spells.  I said I used one arcane eye.YES ..... I ..... CAN and if I really couldn't you would be able to provide an example of a published adventure where I can't.With a dozen or so published campaigns and probably 100 or more published 5E modules, why can't you provide a single example to supprt your claim?I won't.  Not counting invisiblity which may be precast.Using lots of spells in combat are for wizards who want to dominate combat, I only need to do better than a fighter.Also as a point of fact at 8th level I have 4 spells that use no slots and I can use all of them repeatedly in combat if I want/need to. Or he uses none.  Or he uses a few.  With nimble escape, I am ahead of a basic fighter on DPR without using anything other than cantrips and that is as high as the bar was set for this discussion.But if it is possible then it isn't impossible and making a check is an action.Also I will add NOTHING in the inquisitive section says those bonus actions have to be done in combat.What evidence do you have that it takes longer than this.  I can quote where the PHB says it is an action, I can quote where subclasses say it is an action.  How long do you think it should take to search a room?Yes you do.Can I cast cure wounds out of combat?  If I can't take an action to cast it!  How can I cast it if I am ouit of combat and can't take actions?  I guess this explains why I can't use invisibility or disguise self or even knock.  I need to be in combat to use them. No such a DM is playing perfectly according to the rules and like I said earlier, if we demands we be in combat, then I have one of my allies attack something to put us into combat.No.  I know the whole layout most of the time.  I probably don't know how  big the rooms are because they are behind doors, but in most dungeouns I know most of the layout. Just look at the example dungeouns I posted, I know most of the area.  Also in those dungeons at many  of those doors a Rouge opening a door is going to be seen, and will often be seen before he even gets to all the doors, so even so I am not perfect but it is "better" than the Rogue.You will spend less than a half hour exploring, not counting travel time. Most of the day is traveling or resting and doing things like scribing scrolls or whatever.Invisibility will generally last for only 1 encounter, but usually you scout with it, avoiding encounters then come back and have the first encounter, then the second, then maybe the third and then a short rest.  so you will be invisble for about 5 or 10 minutes then spend about 5 minutes having the encounters and searching. That is the standard, it can vary of course.Well 3 times if  I cast it 3 times, but sure.But I am already above a basic fighter in DPR before I make that attack with advantage.Not in the front line - nimlbe escape.  You are right though I probably do need to cast a few shield spells, but not typically that many.So can I ready an attack to destroy a fireball when a wizard casts it?  It does not say it is indestructable.Can I just swing a sword and destroy Black Tentacles that is restraining the entire party instead of making everyone try to escape?  It does not say it is indestructable.Instead of burning a web, can I just attack it and damage it for 1 hit point and destroy it?  It does not say it is indestructable?Can I do those things in your game? Why would AE be any different than those spells?You can't.  I have never played a wizard with a dexterity that low and if you read above, this wizard is at 18.I do usually play intelligent Rogues, so if it  is my Rogue this is a safe assumption, however most optimizers dump intelligence on a Rogue.  Even on an Arcane Trickster  they will dump intelligence and focus on spells without saves.No it is for picking up the sheet (small thing) so you can search the bed (action)I did admit putting a bunch of drawers in there makes you do more things since you can't just look.Did you bother to read this and do the math?note it says "on a scale of MINUTES" .... NOT hoursLet's scale this - Dungeon with 10 "long" hallways and 10 chambers, searching for traps and searching every room.  That is 2 hours according to what you just posted above, not 15 hours  Nothing in fireball or black tenticles or web says it is immune to damage either.  Can I destroy those with 1 hp damageDisguise  Self is not a concentration spell and I am not using invisibility "for" any fights, it just happens to be up when one starts several times a day.AE  is not up for an hour, it is up for like 10 minutes BEFORE I cast invisibility.I haven't made it a single time.  Tell me where I have said I would use 2 concentration spells simultaneously.You are looking in all the directions over  the course of a turn and the eye is doing the same thing.  No they are not.  They are two entirely separate optional rules with entirely different mechanics and flanking does not matter how you are facing.  I can be shooting an arrow at a guy 15 feet away and you can be attacking me from the other direction and I am not flanked RAW.No mechanically for flanking you get the bonus because positioning alone and things like blidsight do  not prevent it.I will add that if you use the facing rule you can change facing as a reaction.  So a fighter closes and attacks on one side no flanking, no advantage.  A second fighter moves in directly opposite.  At this point the guy that is attacking can change his facing as a reaction to face the second fighter (reaction to movement), so he is actually facing this second fighter, but the second figther still gets advantage under the flanking rules if you are using them. They are two completely different things with different mechanics and iff  you are using both of them you get advantage on a flanked creature that is facing you.MINUTES not HOURS</blockquote>

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