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<blockquote data-quote="Asisreo" data-source="post: 8763136" data-attributes="member: 7019027"><p>A scouting rogue tend to have their odds distinctly in their favor. Especially if they're drow, as they can bring the darkness with them. Same for shadow monks but independent of race. </p><p></p><p>And if they get caught, they have a much better chance of simply neutralizing the scouts than the familiar that gets caught which would only be able to, best-case, retreat. </p><p></p><p>The arcane trickster rogue can. But if we're excluding third-casters for some reason, both of those have abilities that let them elevate themselves easily. </p><p></p><p>The shadowmonk can teleport in areas of dim light. And if they're a high-elf shadow monk, they can use prestidigitation to snuff out nonmagical light while using darkness to dispel most magical light sources like a continual flame. Then, they can teleport.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If a wizard chooses to use up their spellbook pages for a stealth-focused spell and they prepare it for the day and are able to use it well, then they should be rewarded for it. That makes a satisfying loop for a wizard that masters it. </p><p></p><p>The fighter can adapt to a stealth-like mission too, though not as drastically. But it's not like the fighter player is surprised that they aren't stealthing as optimally as the rogue or the wizard with good stealth spell options prepared. It's not like a fighter's features are completely hidden. A fighter character knows what the class is giving them. They're choosing to forgoe being the stealthiest character in the game. Which is fine. But they're not necessarily helpless in all stealth missions. </p><p></p><p>There is a trade-off. Putting aside the fact you have to get yourself 10gp worth of charcoal to cast the spell, you need to also allocate a spells known and an hour to cast it. An hour and ten minutes if you're using it as a ritual. Which can be costly when time is of the essence. </p><p></p><p>A rogue is okay to scout immediately, inherently, and efficiently. </p><p></p><p>Cost v Demand. You may demand it, but clearly it wasn't necessary for 5e's success. Could you promise that it would be worth their while?</p><p></p><p>How does keeping the fighter as-is hindering your fun? You can simply ignore the class. </p><p></p><p>And what if you don't find it reasonable? </p><p></p><p>What gives your judgement such weight and priority?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Asisreo, post: 8763136, member: 7019027"] A scouting rogue tend to have their odds distinctly in their favor. Especially if they're drow, as they can bring the darkness with them. Same for shadow monks but independent of race. And if they get caught, they have a much better chance of simply neutralizing the scouts than the familiar that gets caught which would only be able to, best-case, retreat. The arcane trickster rogue can. But if we're excluding third-casters for some reason, both of those have abilities that let them elevate themselves easily. The shadowmonk can teleport in areas of dim light. And if they're a high-elf shadow monk, they can use prestidigitation to snuff out nonmagical light while using darkness to dispel most magical light sources like a continual flame. Then, they can teleport. If a wizard chooses to use up their spellbook pages for a stealth-focused spell and they prepare it for the day and are able to use it well, then they should be rewarded for it. That makes a satisfying loop for a wizard that masters it. The fighter can adapt to a stealth-like mission too, though not as drastically. But it's not like the fighter player is surprised that they aren't stealthing as optimally as the rogue or the wizard with good stealth spell options prepared. It's not like a fighter's features are completely hidden. A fighter character knows what the class is giving them. They're choosing to forgoe being the stealthiest character in the game. Which is fine. But they're not necessarily helpless in all stealth missions. There is a trade-off. Putting aside the fact you have to get yourself 10gp worth of charcoal to cast the spell, you need to also allocate a spells known and an hour to cast it. An hour and ten minutes if you're using it as a ritual. Which can be costly when time is of the essence. A rogue is okay to scout immediately, inherently, and efficiently. Cost v Demand. You may demand it, but clearly it wasn't necessary for 5e's success. Could you promise that it would be worth their while? How does keeping the fighter as-is hindering your fun? You can simply ignore the class. And what if you don't find it reasonable? What gives your judgement such weight and priority? [/QUOTE]
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