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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 4328544" data-attributes="member: 18">The problem is the player not the alignment.Not sure how this is a hard concept. 4E's definition of CE pretty much ensures that it's going to create a problem in almost any group, eventually, even a largely E one, but E most certainly does not.If you're playing with remotely mature adults, you shouldn't need to limit your alignments by DM fiat. The players will self-limit to playable concepts (as long as you've presented them with some vague idea of your expectations of the campaign). Of course, not all of us are lucky enough to play with a group of mature adults, and I can understand limiting alignments when playing with strangers. I just don't think it'll save you from idiocy and juvenile behaviour, merely delay it somewhat.Of course, if I was playing with strangers, I'd probably ban LG as well as CE, because in my experience, the disruptiveness of LG in a mostly N or CG/NG group (or any group w/o a significant L component) is very close to that of CE. They're more cooperative in a lot of ways, and don't usually stab people in their sleep (though I count 1 LG "Orc babies must die!"-type for every 1 CE/CN "I'M CRAZY MURDEROUS YO"-type in the groups I've encountered), but the amount of heel-digging and plan-veto'ing I've seen from LG players is far in excess of any other alignment. Of course, one sees more LG than CE/CN, but it's certainly an alignment taken by people who think "being a total blocker" is an acceptable method of D&D play, and just like the CE-types, justify extreme dick-ery by saying "But it's my ALIGNMENT!". Players are the problem, particularly socially immature players, though, not alignments. Players and sometimes DMs, because I've seen DMs before who wanted to enforce alignments and had some quite specific and loopy ideas of what each alignment constituted (thank god 4E largely removed "True Neutral"!).I won't hard-limit the alignments on my campaign (indeed I've not, and we've got only G and U), but I would be surprised if CE fitted any acceptable character concept.</blockquote>

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