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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lokiare" data-source="post: 6247873" data-attributes="member: 83996">Well, your partially right. On top of what you listed in 4E you could use an action point to get an extra action, aid another, basic attack, bull rush, charge, crawl, escape if grabbed, grab a creature, make an opportunity attack, ready an action, run, use second wind, shift, squeeze, stand up, total defense (great for moving through threatened areas), walk, or use 2-3 at-will maneuvers, 2 encounter maneuvers, 1 utility maneuver, and 1 daily power (which was likely "Reliable" meaning they could re-use it until they hit with it). That's just out of the PHB. That's not including the robust page 42 improvisation that allowed the player to use a basic attack or a power to do something not listed.You can do this in 4E too, its just usually (but not always) better to use an at-will maneuver instead.Many at-will powers were not limited by weapon, and combat superiority maneuvers were no different than 4E at-will maneuvers except you can run out. So in 4E you have 2 at-will maneuvers and 2 encounter maneuvers that are equivalent to those you listed. 4E is still ahead.Action surge is equivalent to 4E's action points, except in 4E you got more than 1 or 2 a day (1 point per 2 encounters), there are many feats and maneuvers in 4E that key off of charging, there are some maneuvers that key off hitting or missing with an attack. So this is a wash.On top of this Fighters in 4E also give their Marked opponents a -2 to attack anyone else, they get a free attack if those opponents attack someone else or move away. So 4E is one or more up on 5E.Nice try, but 4E has the same freedoms and no trap options as everything is about equal. In both systems you can make a gimped character if you work at it, its just that in 4E its harder to do.I've seen many players that run out of limited use maneuvers and start improvising or be perfectly happy using basic attacks and at-will maneuvers for the rest of the day. In my experience healing surges are the thing that cause a party to stop and rest.The same goes for 4E. I see plenty of improvisation in my games.5E gives you a few options that once expended devolve the combat into 'hit it and hit it again". In 4E you at least are left with 3-4 (basic attack, 2-3 at-will maneuvers) interesting things you can do each round when you run out of limited resources.Defenses and abilities weren't unbounded in 4E. They were bounded by point buy and the maximum you could add to it at any given level. The fake bounding in 5E puts an artificial limit on your ability scores so that you don't feel your character reaches its full potential in the the system laws. Something 4E doesn't do. Defenses could not reach more than a certain amount as they were based on your ability scores and your magic items for characters and your level and ability scores for monsters. In 4E you could get the Quick Draw feat and swap your weapon out every round to as many weapons as you could carry. I'm just not seeing these supposed limits you keep implying 4E had...Note: this post is not edition warring. I'm not attacking 5E. I'm comparing it to 4E line by line rule by rule. Very different than insulting an edition...</blockquote>

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