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<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 5950073" data-attributes="member: 16586"><p>I think an argument could be made that prior to Essentials 4e expects too much from players. When you wholly embrace the mechanics and their narrative underpinnings its a beautiful game, but 4e does not hold up well to shallow purely mechanical play. It shares this feature in common with Burning Wheel and to a lesser extent FantasyCraft. I'm still holding out hope that solid design time can be given to a module for more narrative play, but I'm not holding my breath. In the meantime I plan to pick up as much 4e Classic material as I can get my hands on.</p><p></p><p> [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] - I think RuneQuest's biggest strength is also its biggest weakness. It's bloody brutal combat system calls too you begging to be used. Sure, there's a good chance your character will die every time they take up their sword, but it's so much fun you don't care as much as you should. It also has the reverse of D&D's classic problem - warrior types are so much more engaging to play in a game that features even one combat encounter a session thanks to the fact that magic is mostly useful on the operational level (the most combat effective magic makes you better at weapon based combat*) and spell acquisition is by default tightly controlled on the setting level. It makes for a great Conan or Elric game, but doesn't work well for players who prefer magic user as protagonists or plentiful use of monsters. The game is designed for personal man to man combat and excels at it. The trade off being that fights with dragons, giants, and Cthulhu inspired horrors doesn't feel as natural as it does in D&D.</p><p></p><p>*The exception being highly advanced theists who are boss. Of course by the time divine magic reaches this level martially oriented PCs can do stuff like parry missile weapons with swords, knock enemies back several meters, fully parry great swords with short swords, run up walls, and make attacks that cannot be parried (all requiring spending resources of course).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 5950073, member: 16586"] I think an argument could be made that prior to Essentials 4e expects too much from players. When you wholly embrace the mechanics and their narrative underpinnings its a beautiful game, but 4e does not hold up well to shallow purely mechanical play. It shares this feature in common with Burning Wheel and to a lesser extent FantasyCraft. I'm still holding out hope that solid design time can be given to a module for more narrative play, but I'm not holding my breath. In the meantime I plan to pick up as much 4e Classic material as I can get my hands on. [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] - I think RuneQuest's biggest strength is also its biggest weakness. It's bloody brutal combat system calls too you begging to be used. Sure, there's a good chance your character will die every time they take up their sword, but it's so much fun you don't care as much as you should. It also has the reverse of D&D's classic problem - warrior types are so much more engaging to play in a game that features even one combat encounter a session thanks to the fact that magic is mostly useful on the operational level (the most combat effective magic makes you better at weapon based combat*) and spell acquisition is by default tightly controlled on the setting level. It makes for a great Conan or Elric game, but doesn't work well for players who prefer magic user as protagonists or plentiful use of monsters. The game is designed for personal man to man combat and excels at it. The trade off being that fights with dragons, giants, and Cthulhu inspired horrors doesn't feel as natural as it does in D&D. *The exception being highly advanced theists who are boss. Of course by the time divine magic reaches this level martially oriented PCs can do stuff like parry missile weapons with swords, knock enemies back several meters, fully parry great swords with short swords, run up walls, and make attacks that cannot be parried (all requiring spending resources of course). [/QUOTE]
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