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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 6274697" data-attributes="member: 6716779">Bard was one of the most powerful classes outside a primary caster in 3.5 and in 2nd ed they often made a better spellcaster than the actual wizard. The Bard has always been perceived as weak for some strange reason maybe the art work for them in 2nd end 3rd ed. We had a level 8 bard IIR giving everyone in the party +8 to hit and damage which accounted for around 170% of the parties total damage (comabred to the avg damage without the bard). In 2nd ed you could have a level 3 wizard or a level 4 bard with the exact same spell table, but the bard had d6 hit dice (and 4 of them) better weapons and armor and could use some skills and bardic ability and this kind of carried through to the higher levels.  The wizard finally got level 7 spells at level 14 IIRC which the bard could not get to but the bard would be 3 or 4 levels higher with a higher caster level. The bard has never really sucked, just the average bard player is an idiot in my experience.</blockquote>