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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Orius" data-source="post: 8054756" data-attributes="member: 8863">Oh, I agree.  The whole charop mentality is what I hate most about 3e.  I don't like playing the game that way, but if I'm going to DM 3e, I need to have some grounding in it so I can prepare material properly, know what material needs to be banned to keep things balanced right, and so on.  Min-maxing was always a potential problem, but the more limited options before 3e kept it under a modicum of control.  3e had so much material though that it was able to far eclipse what even unrestricted Skills & Powers could do even with all the related Dragon articles.It's not just that though, it's the related problems on top of it.  Like charopers bullying other players into playing optimized builds they don't want to play or the player entitlement mentality.While I see it as another class that hits the poor fighter in the groin while he's down.Well, if you've got a smart player he's going to know that a wizard's strength isn't the direct damage spells, but the things like buffs, save or die, etc.  He doesn't even need to go out of his way to break things.  One problem here is that 3e removed some limits on casters that helped keep them from getting too powerful.  But there was also nonsense like 15 minute workdays as well.  That I don't disagre with.  There were a few spells that did need to be fixed.  Harm's a big one, with the issue being that touch spells rolled against full AC in 2e, but only partial AC in 3e, while the cleric's BAB in 3e is 3/4 level where it was only roughly 2/3 level with 2e's THACOs. Also everything in 3e tends to have more hp than previous editions, so harm had less impact when few enemies topped 100 hp.Going well beyond simple errata though made it much harder to use 3.0 and 3.5 material together.</blockquote>

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