Area of Effect for Turn Undead

[Dax Doomslayer]

Hi Folks,
I posted this in the Rules Section but there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer. When turning undead, does the turn affect all the undead within a 60' radius? Does it depend on the undead seeing the cleric? Does it depend on the cleric seeing the undead. For instance, if the cleric is surrounded, will they all be turned? What if the undead were engaged in combat with another character and the undead was looking the opposite way? I understand that the turn is affected by cover. However, what else comes into play if anything?

From the responses on the Rules Messageboard, it seems as if the Turn Undead ability acts like a 60 foot radius burst - however nowhere in the rules does it indicate that. If this in fact is the case, it would give an already strong character class another pretty strong ability. I had thought that it should emanate out from the front of the cleric. I appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

My understanding was that it was a burst as well. In the PHB, the illustration of Jozan turning undead shows him displaying his holy symbol which Turns the ghouls. That's a good approximation of how I see it. The cleric displays his holy symbol, which shines with a holy light, turning any undead within 60'.

Why should it only emanate from the front of the cleric? Especially when 3e has done away with facing?

 

[dravot]

It says 60 feet. Nowhere does it say that there is a direction or cone effect, etc.

Any undead with total cover are unaffected by the turning (like any burst effect).

 

[Dax Doomslayer]

Thanks L.P.,
I realize that they have done away "facing" per se in the 3E. However, it doesn't state that this is a 60 foot burst in the rules. In addition, in my "minds eye" (cinematically speaking - which I know doesn't count for anything ), I picture the Cleric presenting the Holy Symbol and the positive energy issuing forth from where it is presented forward (say more of 180 degree arc or cone type aoo). The rules only mention that you can't turn anything beyond 60 feet. If one goes by the picture in the PHB with the ghouls, if you notice, they all are in fact in front of him (which I wouldn't have a problem with - it would be the one say 60 feet directly behind him that I would) . . .Thanks again.

 

[clark411]

Please insert "to my understanding" at the beginning of each response.


"When turning undead, does the turn affect all the undead within a 60' radius?"
No- it affects the closest undead first, then works its way to the next. When you run out of turning damage, the undead stop turning. So if you can turn 10 HD of Undead, and there's a 6 HD baddie followed up by three 2 HD baddies, the closer 6 HD baddie will flee, then the remaining 4 HD will affect two of the 2 HD baddies (so long as they all are within 60 ft.)
The image on 139 that can bring about this idea that a cleric needs to face a certain direction and "aim" a turn is more for flavor than to support a rules decision. As there is nothing that states a cleric must aim it, and instead that it affects closest undead first, it's within the rules that a cleric could hit a zombie 10 ft to his left and then one 20 ft to his right before hitting another 40 ft before him (not that there's a left, right, or before without facing)

Does it depend on the undead seeing the cleric? Does it depend on the cleric seeing the undead.

Line o' sight is required, and as stated before total cover blocks it (well, this makes sense as you can't see anything with total cover anyhoo)

"For instance, if the cleric is surrounded, will they all be turned?"
Possibly, if his turning damage is high enough. It's closer to a burst or emination than a cone or line- so being surrounded shouldn't mean some cannot be affected.

"What if the undead were engaged in combat with another character and the undead was looking the opposite way?"
The undead are still affected regardless of what they are doing. If you want to rule otherwise for flavor, just note that you're doing so at the expense of the power of the ability.

"I understand that the turn is affected by cover. However, what else comes into play if anything?"
There are certain spells like Unhallow that can come into play, as can the bolstering power of evil clerics in some situations. Ultimately, a cleric or paladin will often wipe up low HD to HD = CR rating undead- tactically speaking, there is very little beyond giving every skeleton a Tower Shield and setting them to full cover that will stop them from popping.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Doomslayer,

It's the lack of facing, I think, that's key. It may very well be that, as you say, the Holy Light only emanates from the cleric in a cone. But the lack of facing means that, in the 6 seconds of a round, it's assumed the cleric can shine that cone in every direction.

Think of gaze attacks. They obviously only emanate from the front of the creature that has one, but are still effective in every direction emanating outward from the gazer.