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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Synthetik Fish" data-source="post: 2573083" data-attributes="member: 8746">Kilroy-It's pretty evident that you're really biased against rogues. I don't think you're giving them their fair share.First of all, you talk about spellcasters casting all these spells as if they're free. Especially at lower levels, spellcasters don't exactly have a ton of spells at their disposal. If having a rogue means that I can have THAT many more Ray of Enfeeblements, Magic Missiles, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Shatter, Flame Bolt, Fire Ball, Lighting Bolt, Fly, etc. etc., then yeah, a rogue is deffinately worth it. Also keep in mind that a wizard can only cast one spell a round-- assuming he doesn't get interrupted.A spellcasters' primary objective is, well, casting spells. Rogues can have lots of objectives, and thus the versitility of multiclassing can make them awesome.As far as not using sneak attack... well... I don't know what kind of campaigns YOU are playing, but I've played both in boxed-adventures and home-made ones, and I have never had a real problem with not being able to sneak attack. Sure, some things are immune, but that's just for balance. Like I said, plenty of things can resist spells, or aren't that susceptible to a sword, or can't be charmed, etc.That being said, I don't think that rogues are the most important class by far. Like you said, a fighters' ability to wade into combat with devistating damage is un-paralleled in most instances (Most!) For a bare-bones party, all that you really NEED are fighters and a cleric. The next priority goes to wizards, then rogues... and everything beyond that is all icing on the cake.And I still think you aren't taking the role-playing aspect into account. Sounds like you do mostly hack-and-slash. That's fun and all, but rogues, especially with ahving all their skills, can eb a BLAST to role-play.I once made a halfling rogue that used throwing daggers. He eventually took 4 levels in fighter. MAN was he devastating. Absolutely ALL of my feats went towards his daggers. It got to the point where he would easily be hitting with 4 sneak attacks in a round... it wasn't that unsual for me to be doing well over the damage that a fighter was doing in a round. It all depends on how you build your character.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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