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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kilroy" data-source="post: 2580665" data-attributes="member: 5299"> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> My 'short list' of rogue skills that are really important: Search Spot Listen Hide Move Silently Disable Device Open Lock Use Magic Device Bluff Sense Motive Craft[Poisonmaking] Craft[Traps] Escape Artist Gather Information Diplomacy Knowledge[dungeoneering] Sleight of Hand Tumble Even with the junk trimmed, a normal human rogue still has 18 "important" skills  to pick from and only gets 9.  Which of those 9 go?  Without knowing what's in store for the character down the road, that's a really hard call to make, and there's no way to fix it once it't done. That's true for everyone though, so I don't counting that as something that gives rogues an advantage. This would be really powerful, if anyone couldn't get this with 1 level of rogue (or monk, for the cleric).  Rough for the cleric, but not so bad for the fighter. </li> </ul>This is useful if you know which skills you're going to be using frequently.  Trouble is, if you know this, just take a level of rogue for the skill caps, then take the frequent skills cross-class, or take a feat or the right cleric domain to get them in class.  Rogues are too weak without knowing in advance what skills a particular campaign and DM will require, and they're the least able to adapt after finding this info out painfully late.  A stealth/dungeon focused rogue needs too many skills to be a good social rogue, and the same in reverse.  If you don't know before you start which one you're going to need, you're boned.  If you happen to need both, you're stuck being just as bad at major parts of your job as anyone else would be.Yeah, there's a good bit of that too.  Having a DM for my main group who doesn't allow partial charges on surprise actions and only recently (post-my-rogues) started allowing multiple sneak attacks a round probably doesn't help my impression.</blockquote>

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