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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Warpiglet" data-source="post: 7486757" data-attributes="member: 6689161">I have seen a number of arguments against multiclassing.  I would like to address a few of them and clarify what seems to be the main points of contention.1.  Multiclassing breaks the game or creates a more powerful character2.  The sacred cows must not be butchered...we do NOT like peanut butter in our chocolate3.  People that attempt to have a multi classed character are bad people as demonstrated by their desire to multi class (you know, just 'cause)OK now for bait and switch.  #1  Was fairly exhaustively discussed recently.  For the most part, people were split in their opinion about power but many concluded that single classed characters are NOT underpowered.  I will drop that issue.#3  Yeah.  Not worth a discussion.  My default assumption is you are partially OK if you play D&D until proven otherwise.So really I want to look at #2 for a bit.  In order to do this, I want to make use of a particular class: cleric.  Going back DECADES, the cleric was my favorite class.  In 1e AD&D I played a LG cleric of Tyr who liked to fight with a mace and flail (he got one attack!).  Later, we experimented with villains and I had a ton of fun with a LE Cleric of (I cannot recall the deity but suspect it was Bane ).I played and really enjoyed the traditional cleric.  They have devotion to a God and it is clear in their behavior, attire and actions.  I had a friend who wanted to do something different.  He made a wood elf cleric who was in a cult that hated centaurs.  I am unsure if there was one deity that they preferred but I know he had a symbol branded on his chest for his cult and they were most assuredly evil.  But it was novel!  We had appropriate villains to run with him of course and they had hideouts, conquered things, plundered and robbed.  But the point is this: his CLASS fluff was not by the book.  Even then, we felt empowered to make this kind of thing up.Later on official game material came out discussing clerics of ideals.  Perhaps they did not worship a deity at all!  A one time traditionalist, I sort of made a yuck face.  Not for me, but whatever.  I took a cleric of Pelor instead.Advance from 3rd to 5th and we have Paladins clearly following ideals and only maybe a deity.  Maybe they worship no one.  Maybe they are not LG or even G either!  The fluff is changing with the rules.  -----------------------Enter the multi class debate...based on fluff and archetype.  In the days long past, I admit that I cringed at quadruple-dipping  prestige classes.  "Hi!  My character, Lord Waldo is a Divine Champion-Baker Artisan-Mime-Shadowboxer-Debate Champion-Dog Wrestler!  I am smiling as I type that absurdity and realize some (many) people used prestige classes to world build or simply make a compelling character!  I was interested in the CG Avenger a the time myself.  And it is understood that some people placed some limits that helped their particular world and game and I find no fault with such restriction.  There may have been some who did not allow prestige classes at all! (And if you are into bonus stacking and system mastery, I find NO FAULT AT ALL with you.  That is merely not my preference).I recently read an older thread that had me thinking about this again.  The particular argument arose about the cleric warlock.  But I am getting ahead of myself.  On to my questions.______________________________________________________________________________________________________________WHAT IF clerics are practitioners of "white magic."  And what if they are gain this power through the same means as a magic user or even sorcerer?  What are the implications?  Further, what if traditional cleric reside alongside these Gandalf wannabes?  What happens?  Does it break the game?(Mechanically it should not break the game if nothing from RAW is changed save the fantasy context).  Does it break YOUR world?  (you pretend one).  I am guessing that depends on the assumptions of your world.  Mine right now is pretty much monotheistic vs. heretics.  But that is just my pretend world, right?Now back to multiclassing.  Let us use the example here of a cleric warlock.If my world does NOT presuppose all clerics follow jealous gods or even gods necessarily, is there any problem with the cleric warlock?  If we think that a combination of abilities will  break the game, that is a game issue that can be addressed.  But what if it is a fluff issue only?  Why the selectivity with certain classes?  It is OK for a Paladin to follow an ideal and depending on edition, it is OK for a cleric to follow a philosophy, but NOT to multiclass a 5th edition cleric with anything that would make a god jealous?  This leads to a follow up question: can we not imagine clerical powers from anything other than a jealous god?-----------------------------------------------------------------------------Lastly, what is OK to reflavor?  If classes are fair game, why object to multi classing in 5th?  Mechanically you are not better with all but maybe a few well known instances.  Some of the threads got pretty heated and it often revolved around sacred cows of fluff.And with this in mind, why couldn't the PC be an exception?  Where all paladins in your world MUST follow a deity, the PC is a weird exception that is fueled by X?  Do exceptions to the typical tear everything down?</blockquote>

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