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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7488111" data-attributes="member: 6919838">Well, i have a slightly different take on this - i think they included several points in the rules and classes where &quot;bonds to others matter&quot; a lot&nbsp; and clerics and warlocks are the two most obvious cases - as well as pallys. hoiwever, they chose not to hard code the consequences of violating such bonds to allow a lot of flexibility for each Gm/player and each character and each table and each patron/pawn and each god/devotee to play out as fits that circumstance.its similar to the objection i have with the skew it seems some have when you see things akin to *if you take classes other than warlock the patron removes your power* or those who somehow see references to *working against the goals of the&nbsp; patron* as somehow indicative of a lack of power on the patron etc etc...You would almost think there was never a disagreement between employee and employer that did not result in absolute termination... never an employee hired who did not slavishly follow the corporate mission statement and guidelines... etc.there is a lot of subtlety possible in these kinds of arrangements and exchanges - both from &quot;common sense&quot; and from &quot;real life analogs&quot; and from the lore and legends and myths and depictions of such fantasy and scifi.If the designers had said &quot;if your warlock goes against your patron's goals, the patron may withhold...&quot; way too many would take that as &quot;must...&quot; and take that as &quot;any slight...&quot; and so on and so forth and i think the designers have at least enough sense to see that too.So, instead they leave the nature of the pact as TBD and the nature of what a break of doctrine results in or requires as atonement (if any) as TBD so that it can be suited to each table, world, deal and specific case as needed.I don't need or want a rule or a chart and a roll to tell me some form of universal HR policy guide for patron-pawn or god-devotee. There cannot be enough of those to cover the vast reaches of our game.So count me in the amazingly happy the rules did not dictate and define more about that than emphasizing how important it should be in the nature of the characters and how it should definitely be something they palyer-gm reach agreement on.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7488111, member: 6919838"] Well, i have a slightly different take on this - i think they included several points in the rules and classes where "bonds to others matter" a lot and clerics and warlocks are the two most obvious cases - as well as pallys. hoiwever, they chose not to hard code the consequences of violating such bonds to allow a lot of flexibility for each Gm/player and each character and each table and each patron/pawn and each god/devotee to play out as fits that circumstance. its similar to the objection i have with the skew it seems some have when you see things akin to *if you take classes other than warlock the patron removes your power* or those who somehow see references to *working against the goals of the patron* as somehow indicative of a lack of power on the patron etc etc... You would almost think there was never a disagreement between employee and employer that did not result in absolute termination... never an employee hired who did not slavishly follow the corporate mission statement and guidelines... etc. there is a lot of subtlety possible in these kinds of arrangements and exchanges - both from "common sense" and from "real life analogs" and from the lore and legends and myths and depictions of such fantasy and scifi. If the designers had said "if your warlock goes against your patron's goals, the patron may withhold..." way too many would take that as "must..." and take that as "any slight..." and so on and so forth and i think the designers have at least enough sense to see that too. So, instead they leave the nature of the pact as TBD and the nature of what a break of doctrine results in or requires as atonement (if any) as TBD so that it can be suited to each table, world, deal and specific case as needed. I don't need or want a rule or a chart and a roll to tell me some form of universal HR policy guide for patron-pawn or god-devotee. There cannot be enough of those to cover the vast reaches of our game. So count me in the amazingly happy the rules did not dictate and define more about that than emphasizing how important it should be in the nature of the characters and how it should definitely be something they palyer-gm reach agreement on. [/QUOTE]

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