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Message: <blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7493180" data-attributes="member: 6919838">Honestly, i cannot suss out what you mean by the difference ebetween warlocks bargaining with entities and repeating dispater three times and how you find the former cool but the Gm wants warlock to have granted spells etc. it seems liike maybe you are mixing and matching wizard and warlock and i got lost.So i will approach this from the more common warlock player-agency vs setting POV.Case -1 - The warlock gets his powers from/thru a patron and the bond and relationship and bargain between them is a pivotal aspect of the character. this is an ongoing relationship - and as varied as relationships can be. Some are very friendly and amicable as they work towards common goals for common purpose. others not so much. Some are more parent-child or friends others may be more master and pawn. Lost of places in between. This is a thing the Gm and player should spend enough time on to work out those details.Case -2 : as a player i decide its a commission basis and my patron now has no say or influence except to offer up powers when i want whether i do what it likes or not.this tends to hit the nail when the question of "can the patron at all do anything regarding the PCs powers" like say stop an invocation from working or not allow spells to recover etc? Note the same question can be applied to clerics and their gods... since much the same language is used for both them and the patron warlock and neither explicitly states any ability the patron or deity has to do anything in RAW.In my games the most common answer would be that this is something we work out as player and Gm but for most of these the answer would be that the patron/diety does have capabilities to affect the subject who it has partnered with on the powers level. it also has certainly got the ability to refuse to allow the character to gain more power from the relationship.otherwise, it seems its less a relationship, less a character-character thing and more just a prop or pet the player controls.that guts the nature of the patron-relationships.Why in the world would all those other warlocks be so dumbfoundingly stupid as to make concessions, give and take, negotiate do services for and so on when they could have just found a nice pet patron to give them what they want for no price and no consequences?Why are there any contentious bargains between patron and pawns when the pawn could just have chosen the much easier "i am in charge" route to get the exact same powers?Were all those NPCs in the world who did that just dumb?Yes, as a Gm i could say "yeah, yours is however you want" and then run the rest of the world by different rules.... but that really makes the rest of the world look pretty dumb if the payoff is the same but the price a lot higher.So, in my worlds - in general - if you want the warlock patron pact to be a very favorable and friendly thing - its in your best interest to keep that relationship on very very good terms and be a good friend or whatever to your patron so you both get along.if you are Ok with it being different and there being bumps and fits and starts, thats fine too. occasionally the patron will issue requests and favors and so on and things will play from there as we work that out as we came to agreement on.but don't expect to be basically "the boss of that patron" and ignore it and do whatever you want and not have it have an impact on that relationship.In my games at least.of course, that patron can be a book, but it will be a book with attitude.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" /></blockquote>

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