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Message: <blockquote data-quote="gpetruc" data-source="post: 1752906" data-attributes="member: 2255">Aristocrat as a PC classWhy we need itThere are many reasons to need a PC class suitable for aristocracy or similar educated knights.  There are many examples in fantasy novels: consider for instance those from King Arthur myths, or the nobles from Middle Earth like Aragorn, Faramir, Boromir; they are definitely not just fighters with their 2 skill points and a miserable class skill lists.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> At the current state of D&D (v3.5.2) classes if you want a character with some knowledge and social skills you must take at least some levels in Bard, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard or Sorcerer; none of these class fit the archetype. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> The aristocrat NPC class is not bad, but it is a bit underpowered compared to PC classes and has some problems with the skill list (it has Spot, Listen and Survival as class skills which is at least questionable). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> The Noble class from Dragonlance again does not fit perfectly for both the Inspire and Favour abilities.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> I don’t want a prestige class: the son of a prince must be able to start as a first level aristocrat.</li> </ul>The ingredients: what gives us a good aristocrat<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> skills: at least social skills, knowledge, arts, some physical training and of course riding</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> martial training: a good quality martial training, armoured fighting, more focus on finesse and quality fighting than raw power</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> customization: while Paladins could be all equal to each other, aristocrats should have more freedom in deciding their abilities</li> </ul>Going for the rules:I’m trying to avoid “custom” class abilities, so I’ll focus mostly on the base five elements: attack bonus, saves, hit die, skills and feats.The options that we have are:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> BAB: either full fighter or 3/4 as most of the non fighting classes</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> HD: either d10 or d8, most likely the lesser one</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Skills: we want 4 skill points (6 is probably too much). We should try to keep off the class skill list the main strengths of other classes, and so surely no Spot and Survival, no thievery skills: if a knight wants to be good in these he can of course get cross class ranks and some skill feat</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Feats: bonus feats offer a simple way of creating a class and the players like them as it gives them more options. We still don’t want to overshadow the fighter with many combat oriented feats.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Saves: reflex is surely bad, but it isn’t obvious if we want both will and fortitude good.</li> </ul>Giving some sort of bardic knowledge could be interesting too, but I’m not sureMy first draft of PC Aristocrat rulesBase attack bonus: +1/level (full fighter)Hit die: d8Weapons and armor: martial weapons and heavy armor, but of course no tower shield.Skills: (4 skill points/level) Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Perform (Cha), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language and Swim (Str). Saves: Fortitude and Will goodBonus feats: at level 2,5,8,11,14,17,20. The list includes any feat that gives bonuses to skills or saves, and some combat feats: Combat Expertise (Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip), Dodge (Mobility), Point Blank Shot (Far Shot), Improved Initiative, Mounted Combat (Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample,), Quickdraw, Weapon Finesse, Weapon FocusOther class features:Leadership: bonus Leadership feat at level 7, can be taken more than once but you only gain additional followers and not cohorts.Bonus starting equipment: if you pick the aristocrat as your first class you get more starting gold (800 gp ?) but it can be spent only on ordinary or masterwork equipment (no magic, no alchemy, …)  and you can’t save more than few of that gold (2d4 x 10 gp). (This lets them start with a slightly better armor, or a masterwork sword, or a warhorse; it will be offset very soon and it is mostly for flavour)Other considerations: Starting as aristocrat does not mean you are that rich or powerful (if you are not the first born child of a small noble, for example, or you are an ordinary youth raised and trained by some knightly order).There are no multi classing restrictions: you can start as a bare fighter and later achieve a betters social status (for example after some successful quest) and go for the aristocrat class, you can split levels between fighter and aristocrat if you want a more martial training but still some skills, and so on.Flavour:Now finally your knight can dismount from his warhorse, sheathe his sword and:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> parley with the messengers from the neighbouring prince to decide terms for a military alliance</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> discuss of heraldry and poetry with the members of the court</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> participate to banquets and dances when the big evil has been killed</li> </ul>So it seems it can only enrich the flavour of the gameRoles:It does definitely stole the standard fighter role: he can’t slaughter hordes of orcs by himself fighting with a bastard sword in one hand and a waraxe in the other. He will never be “the best blade of the world”.At the command of an army there would probably be both an aristocrat, which can parley with diplomats and kings, and a fighter, which is better at leading the army in the real combat.Balance:Compared to fighter: less HD, 3 less feats and a much more restricted list of feats (no Power Attack chain, no improved critical, no rapid shot, …), lose weapon specialization, greater weapon focus and specialization; more knowledge, social skills; good will saveCompared to ranger: different skill set without the almighty Spot, 2 less skill points, swapped good reflex for will, no spells, 3 more feats but no favoured enemy (a total of +18 split between enemies, on many skills and combat damage) and woodland skillsCompared to paladin: well, either you are a paladin or you aren’t; anyway less HD, better base saves (but no Divine Grace), lose lay on hands, smite, turning (!), spells in exchange for 8 feats, two more skill points and some more skills.Compared to bard: better BAB and HD, more feats, no spells (important for a Bard), no music, less skills (-2 skill points no Listen, Move Silently, Hide, Tumble)Compared to cleric: better BAB, martial weapons, two more skill points and a slightly better list, some bonus feats in exchange for spells up to 9th level and spontaneous cast healing.In the end it seems balanced to me. If I have to drop something I’d probably drop the fortitude save or one feat; if I have to gain something then it would be either bardic knowledge, one more feat (alas the Landlord from the Stronghold Builder’s Guidebook is still out of the SRD), a slightly larger bonus feat list, or some bonuses to leadership score for what matters followers.Any feedback is greatly appreciated         GiovanniEdit: removed Search from class skills (thanks Nifft)</blockquote>

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