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<blockquote data-quote="MonkeyBoy" data-source="post: 66712" data-attributes="member: 1229"><p>>></p><p> How accurate is the notion that someone in plate would be hurt by the average sword blow? Does armor give away like tinfoil, or does it provide significant protection that is hard to overcome? How many blows did it normally take to bring someone down? If we had a good baseline, then we could model our armor values better.</p><p><<</p><p></p><p>Personally, I disbelieve the concept that an "average" sword blow would damage someone in Plate. </p><p></p><p>This is based on a few differenct things; having seen the stuff, hving worn (i.e. felt the weight of metal in) chain, which plates go on top of, and finally the fact that plate armor was historically frequently "proved" by testing against point blank crossbow and hand-gun shots. (the suits I've seen hve included the marks from this process - the armor has to not be pierced to pass)</p><p></p><p>Now, thats not to say that the character wouldn't be HURT, but thats different from being DAMAGED. That distinction is part of why armor provides AC in DND, and why high level fighters have so many HP...</p><p></p><p>(if you punch your leg, it hurts a bit, but unless you got carried away you shouldn't have damaged yourself!)</p><p></p><p>Now, some weapons are specifically designed to punch through armor - i'm thinking of bodkin arrows, quarrels and military picks. Some are designed to damage despite the armor - i'm thinking of clubs, maces, hammers and the like. Finally some are designed to work optimally against lightly or unarmored foes - this is where axes and swords (specifically slashing blades) feature.</p><p></p><p>Take arrows; to cause maximum damage, you'd likely use a broadhead, or even a barbed arrow; bigger hole = more bleeding = more damage. But to punch through armor you use a bodkin (closer to target arrows), but you sacrifice damage (smaller hole) to get through the armor (apply your force to a smaller area). The same notions hold true right through to FMJ vs KTW bullets, for your modern games.</p><p></p><p>Bludgeoning weapons work through armor by using the fact that the force of an impact will be transmitted through the armor to the person inside, hence they can still concuss and break bones through plate</p><p></p><p>Slashing weapons, well obviously they expect to cut; hard armor works pretty good against them. But they cause the most swiftly debilitating damage to unarmored opponents. (being able to sever extremeties, cut muscles and tendons and being able to cut arteries without needing to get such a small area to it as a piercing weapon does)</p><p>Remember that a real full-plate setup is really going to be (taking chest as an example, inside to out);</p><p></p><p>Arming Jacket - padded, protects versus bludeoning a bit.</p><p>Chainmail - protects well versus slashing weapons.</p><p>Breatplate - angles of plate deflect blows and especially piercing weapons.</p><p></p><p>(thats why plate suits have bird-like chests on them; better deflection)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MonkeyBoy, post: 66712, member: 1229"] >> How accurate is the notion that someone in plate would be hurt by the average sword blow? Does armor give away like tinfoil, or does it provide significant protection that is hard to overcome? How many blows did it normally take to bring someone down? If we had a good baseline, then we could model our armor values better. << Personally, I disbelieve the concept that an "average" sword blow would damage someone in Plate. This is based on a few differenct things; having seen the stuff, hving worn (i.e. felt the weight of metal in) chain, which plates go on top of, and finally the fact that plate armor was historically frequently "proved" by testing against point blank crossbow and hand-gun shots. (the suits I've seen hve included the marks from this process - the armor has to not be pierced to pass) Now, thats not to say that the character wouldn't be HURT, but thats different from being DAMAGED. That distinction is part of why armor provides AC in DND, and why high level fighters have so many HP... (if you punch your leg, it hurts a bit, but unless you got carried away you shouldn't have damaged yourself!) Now, some weapons are specifically designed to punch through armor - i'm thinking of bodkin arrows, quarrels and military picks. Some are designed to damage despite the armor - i'm thinking of clubs, maces, hammers and the like. Finally some are designed to work optimally against lightly or unarmored foes - this is where axes and swords (specifically slashing blades) feature. Take arrows; to cause maximum damage, you'd likely use a broadhead, or even a barbed arrow; bigger hole = more bleeding = more damage. But to punch through armor you use a bodkin (closer to target arrows), but you sacrifice damage (smaller hole) to get through the armor (apply your force to a smaller area). The same notions hold true right through to FMJ vs KTW bullets, for your modern games. Bludgeoning weapons work through armor by using the fact that the force of an impact will be transmitted through the armor to the person inside, hence they can still concuss and break bones through plate Slashing weapons, well obviously they expect to cut; hard armor works pretty good against them. But they cause the most swiftly debilitating damage to unarmored opponents. (being able to sever extremeties, cut muscles and tendons and being able to cut arteries without needing to get such a small area to it as a piercing weapon does) Remember that a real full-plate setup is really going to be (taking chest as an example, inside to out); Arming Jacket - padded, protects versus bludeoning a bit. Chainmail - protects well versus slashing weapons. Breatplate - angles of plate deflect blows and especially piercing weapons. (thats why plate suits have bird-like chests on them; better deflection) [/QUOTE]
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