Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Armor as DR
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Sadrik" data-source="post: 6466205" data-attributes="member: 14506"><p>[MENTION=6762059]Orich Starkhart[/MENTION] you are very sharp. Much appreciated.</p><p></p><p>I think your proposition of some mix between size category of the attacker and the target of the attack makes sense. This could be when the parry bonus of your weapons apply and when they do not apply. So if the some size categories bigger both cannot effectively parry against the other. This would effect the relative very small and very big. A pixie cannot parry an ogre and an ogre cannot parry a pixie. If parry could not apply then it would just be an attack against their base defense score.</p><p></p><p>As a side note here, what if all attacks were considered effective attacks, the fighter always delivers an effective attack in their barrage of attacks every 6 seconds (or more than one with multiple attacks). In this way, it is entirely up to the defender to defend that effective attack. At their disposal they can attempt to parry/dodge the attack by making a DEX save against the fighter's attack DC or perhaps roll with it/resist it by making a CON save to increase their effective DR against the attack. Under this idea you make no attack rolls, that is handled under your defense roll every time. So when the wall falls, you try to defend yourself and there is never a difference in how you roll.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes this is a very nuanced delineation. So I do not think there is a <em>right </em>answer here only an answer. What is the best way to model the game you want to play. Do you want to make holding a weapon/shield/item more important mathematically or less important. What should the baseline defense of a person be?</p><p></p><p>Right now the baseline defense I have proposed is 8+Prof+/-DEX+/-size-armor</p><p></p><p>This is very similar to what the game is, 10+/-DEX</p><p></p><p>The two new ones I have there are size, because I think size should have an affect on how hard or easy something is to hit. I am uncertain about sizes role is in 5e. I have not been able to understand its effect yet. The other is armor penalty, so if you have heavy armor you get a penalty to your base defense, due to its burden (earlier you rightly said you thought it would more accurately be measured by overall encumbrance - I agree - though simplicity...).</p><p></p><p>On top of that comes the parry bonus from what you are holding. Shields provide the most bonus and ranged weapons provide the least.</p><p></p><p>Comparing this to the base game, armor bonuses increase your chances of being hit by up to 18 points (20 w/shield) including DEX modifiers. So any modeled system should remain within those values of the to hit score. I can see it being a little less even, considering their is also going to be a DR score.</p><p></p><p>Currently the best you can attain is 20 (shield +pole weapon+ 20 DEX), this is too high by my estimation. The numbers should be reevaluated. Perhaps:</p><p></p><p>Shield +2</p><p>Pole +1</p><p>Melee +0</p><p>Small Melee -1</p><p>Ranged -2</p><p>Unarmed -2</p><p></p><p>Having negative numbers is annoying though. This gets to your point that perhaps base 6 is better representative than base 8 along with the previously proposed parry numbers.</p><p></p><p>Shield +4</p><p>Pole +3</p><p>Melee +2</p><p>Small Melee +1</p><p>Ranged +0</p><p>Unarmed +0</p><p></p><p></p><p>A couple of things here, you would have to have a called shot system in play to somehow avoid DR. Penalty to hit to try and avoid it. I think that makes sense. You could also look very closely and attempt to keep the DR values down as much as possible and not allow them to get that high.</p><p></p><p>I actually do not like the Damage Threshold rule I think a DR makes more sense. It is more granular. In this way an adamantine door is hit and say it has a DR of 10, it reduces the damage of the attack by 10. Under damage threshold any attack that deals 10+ deals full damage which is more all or nothing, and that is what AC is already doing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sadrik, post: 6466205, member: 14506"] [MENTION=6762059]Orich Starkhart[/MENTION] you are very sharp. Much appreciated. I think your proposition of some mix between size category of the attacker and the target of the attack makes sense. This could be when the parry bonus of your weapons apply and when they do not apply. So if the some size categories bigger both cannot effectively parry against the other. This would effect the relative very small and very big. A pixie cannot parry an ogre and an ogre cannot parry a pixie. If parry could not apply then it would just be an attack against their base defense score. As a side note here, what if all attacks were considered effective attacks, the fighter always delivers an effective attack in their barrage of attacks every 6 seconds (or more than one with multiple attacks). In this way, it is entirely up to the defender to defend that effective attack. At their disposal they can attempt to parry/dodge the attack by making a DEX save against the fighter's attack DC or perhaps roll with it/resist it by making a CON save to increase their effective DR against the attack. Under this idea you make no attack rolls, that is handled under your defense roll every time. So when the wall falls, you try to defend yourself and there is never a difference in how you roll. Yes this is a very nuanced delineation. So I do not think there is a [I]right [/I]answer here only an answer. What is the best way to model the game you want to play. Do you want to make holding a weapon/shield/item more important mathematically or less important. What should the baseline defense of a person be? Right now the baseline defense I have proposed is 8+Prof+/-DEX+/-size-armor This is very similar to what the game is, 10+/-DEX The two new ones I have there are size, because I think size should have an affect on how hard or easy something is to hit. I am uncertain about sizes role is in 5e. I have not been able to understand its effect yet. The other is armor penalty, so if you have heavy armor you get a penalty to your base defense, due to its burden (earlier you rightly said you thought it would more accurately be measured by overall encumbrance - I agree - though simplicity...). On top of that comes the parry bonus from what you are holding. Shields provide the most bonus and ranged weapons provide the least. Comparing this to the base game, armor bonuses increase your chances of being hit by up to 18 points (20 w/shield) including DEX modifiers. So any modeled system should remain within those values of the to hit score. I can see it being a little less even, considering their is also going to be a DR score. Currently the best you can attain is 20 (shield +pole weapon+ 20 DEX), this is too high by my estimation. The numbers should be reevaluated. Perhaps: Shield +2 Pole +1 Melee +0 Small Melee -1 Ranged -2 Unarmed -2 Having negative numbers is annoying though. This gets to your point that perhaps base 6 is better representative than base 8 along with the previously proposed parry numbers. Shield +4 Pole +3 Melee +2 Small Melee +1 Ranged +0 Unarmed +0 A couple of things here, you would have to have a called shot system in play to somehow avoid DR. Penalty to hit to try and avoid it. I think that makes sense. You could also look very closely and attempt to keep the DR values down as much as possible and not allow them to get that high. I actually do not like the Damage Threshold rule I think a DR makes more sense. It is more granular. In this way an adamantine door is hit and say it has a DR of 10, it reduces the damage of the attack by 10. Under damage threshold any attack that deals 10+ deals full damage which is more all or nothing, and that is what AC is already doing. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Armor as DR
Top