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<blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 6071432" data-attributes="member: 57383">I quite like systems that use both - so an attack could miss (no damage), hit the AC (weapon damage minus armour DR) or slips through a gap in the armour (weapon damage ignores DR) depending on how good the relative rolls where.Furthermore, I'd like their to be more of a roll for combatant's defensive skill. In regular AD&amp;D a 1st level Dex 13 fighter in chain has an identical AC to a 21st level Dex 13 fighter in chain. Surely the high level fighter should have nigh godlike skills at parrying and dodging attacks? That's supposed to be (partially) covered by hit points, but the implementation of it sometimes doesn't gel very well with me. Why does it cost, say, 2d6 hit points to &quot;dodge&quot; a greatsword and only 1d6 to avoid a heavy staff? They are both more-or-less the same reach, speed and there's similarities in their weapon technique.I handwave that away by viewing hit points as being some kind of chi &quot;force field&quot; that is literally absorbing the blows, since that seems the best fit I could come up with to the AD&amp;D mechanics, but it doesn't have to be that way. It might work to have a &quot;glancing blow&quot; between a &quot;miss&quot; and an &quot;AC hit&quot; where the defendant spends a few hit points and parries/dodges the attack.So the result of an attack might be something like this:MISS (fails to beat Dex) =&gt; no damageDEFENDED AGAINST (beats Dex, fails to beat Dex+Parry/Dodge) =&gt; reduced damage.SOLID HIT (beats Dex+Parry/Dodge, fails to beat Dex+Parry/Dodge+Armour) =&gt; weapon damage minus DR.PRECISION HIT (beats Dex+Parry/Dodge+Armour) =&gt; weapon damage.However, I prefer a Parry/Dodge mechanism based on separate actions. e.g. you spend an opportunity attack to Parry a blow, or a move action to Dodge an attacker, and the success or otherwise is determined by some sort of contest (e.g. if you beat an opponent's attack roll with a parry roll you parry their assault and take no damage).The problem is it's easy to make a system that's so complicated that it slows down play, and I'd want D&amp;D combats to be quick and, preferably, simple. Or, if not simple at least intuitive enough to make decisions quickly.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cleon, post: 6071432, member: 57383"] I quite like systems that use both - so an attack could miss (no damage), hit the AC (weapon damage minus armour DR) or slips through a gap in the armour (weapon damage ignores DR) depending on how good the relative rolls where. Furthermore, I'd like their to be more of a roll for combatant's defensive skill. In regular AD&D a 1st level Dex 13 fighter in chain has an identical AC to a 21st level Dex 13 fighter in chain. Surely the high level fighter should have nigh godlike skills at parrying and dodging attacks? That's supposed to be (partially) covered by hit points, but the implementation of it sometimes doesn't gel very well with me. Why does it cost, say, 2d6 hit points to "dodge" a greatsword and only 1d6 to avoid a heavy staff? They are both more-or-less the same reach, speed and there's similarities in their weapon technique. I handwave that away by viewing hit points as being some kind of chi "force field" that is literally absorbing the blows, since that seems the best fit I could come up with to the AD&D mechanics, but it doesn't have to be that way. It might work to have a "glancing blow" between a "miss" and an "AC hit" where the defendant spends a few hit points and parries/dodges the attack. So the result of an attack might be something like this: MISS (fails to beat Dex) => no damage DEFENDED AGAINST (beats Dex, fails to beat Dex+Parry/Dodge) => reduced damage. SOLID HIT (beats Dex+Parry/Dodge, fails to beat Dex+Parry/Dodge+Armour) => weapon damage minus DR. PRECISION HIT (beats Dex+Parry/Dodge+Armour) => weapon damage. However, I prefer a Parry/Dodge mechanism based on separate actions. e.g. you spend an opportunity attack to Parry a blow, or a move action to Dodge an attacker, and the success or otherwise is determined by some sort of contest (e.g. if you beat an opponent's attack roll with a parry roll you parry their assault and take no damage). The problem is it's easy to make a system that's so complicated that it slows down play, and I'd want D&D combats to be quick and, preferably, simple. Or, if not simple at least intuitive enough to make decisions quickly. [/QUOTE]

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