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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bladesinger_Boy" data-source="post: 5081966" data-attributes="member: 87403">Armor 1-9, Bracers either 1-3 or 1-4No, it wasn't about a penalty to one's dex score; it's a penalty to one's dex modifier to AC.  Actually, I could both AC and Reflex save but that's debatable.  So, 18 dex fighter wearing full plate would get +8 for the armor bonus and 4-3=1 for the dex bonus.  An 18 dex barbarian in breastplate would get +5 armor bonus and 4-2=2 for the dex bonus.  An 18 dex rogue in chain shirt would get +4 armor bonus and 4-1=3 for the dex bonus.The idea was to make wearing heavier armors a flat bonus that does not make things impossible for dexy characters.  I don't the optimization, min-max of armor bonus to max dex.  If a character gains dex under this system, they still gain the +1 bonus wearing whatever armor they already have.  Under the old max dex system, gaining any bonus throws thigns up in the air and they either try to add further enchantment to their armor or sell-in and upgrade to something lighter.More complex?  I consider min-maxing to constantly considering whats the best armor I can wear consider both my current dex and bonuses I may or may not get in the future complex.  A flat penalty seems simple to me.Just to repeat, you can't ever get a dex penalty to AC because of armor; the least you can get is a +0 dex bonus to AC.  Unless you actually have a negative dex modifier.I wouldn't have a problem removing mithril most likely, or nimbleness, or both.  Maybe just say the effects don't stack.  So, unless one source is removing 2 or 3 points, like maybe Champion of Corellon or the Pathfinder Fighter, then the most dex penalty you'll get is 1.This is a another topic, but medium armors do need to suck less.  And chain shirt may be too powerful.  I wouldn't mind saying something like base armor bonuses range from 1 to 9 and each category grants 3 points.  Time for another table.  I put both max dex bonus and the dex penalty in there.  You can see the thematics of plate for heavy armors, mail for medium armors, and leather and other junk for light armors.  I wanted to make sure Hide armor was still a +3 bonus to Druid armor restrictions didn't get change things too much, though now it's light armor.ARMOR BONUS___MAX DEX/ DEX PEN___ARMOR CHECK____ CATEGORY+1 Padded..................+8 / -1..............-0.........................light+2 Leather..................+7 / -1..............-1.........................light+3 Hide......................+6 / -1..............-2.........................light+4 Scalemail...............+5 / -2..............-2.........................medium+5 Chainmail...............+4 / -2..............-3.........................medium+6 Splintmail..............+3 / -2..............-4.........................medium+7 Breast Plate...........+2 / -3..............-4.........................heavy+8 Half Plate...............+1 / -3..............-5.........................heavy+9 Full Plate...............+0 / -3..............-6.........................heavyBracers of armor have also always got under my skin.  I don't think they should be totally disallowed; but I wish they followed more set armor or shield rules and not there own thing.  Remember Dastana from the Arms & Equipment Guide?  Like that but not broken.I think, while we should allow the no dex cap, maybe an armor check would help even things a bit.  What if, though bracers of armor would still not count as wearing armor so monk and wizards and whatever can still wear with no profs, there were a few different levels of bracers you can wear depending on the armor prof you have.  So, the wizard and monk can't wear as heavy bracers as the Duelist PrC or the Bladesingers.  Then, they get enchanted up with buying or crafting or the magic vestment spell like any other piece of armor.  BRACER TABLE "A"BRACER TYPE_____ARMOR BONUS___ARMOR CHECK___PROF REQUIREDBasic Bracers.......+1.........................-1.......................noneLight Bracers........+2.........................-2.......................lightMedium Bracers....+3.........................-3.......................mediumHeavy Bracers......+4.........................-4.......................heavyIf Bracers going up to a base 4 armor bonus is too big and light bracers at +2 is too good compared to wearing normal armor with its dex penalty, maybe something like this.  BRACER TABLE "B"BRACER TYPE_____ARMOR BONUS___ARMOR CHECK___PROF REQUIREDLight Bracers........+1.........................-1.......................noneMedium Bracers....+2.........................-2.......................mediumHeavy Bracers......+3.........................-3.......................heavyThis is probably better than 1 to 4.  I like table B more.</blockquote>

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